Is anyone ready for this??? Wages goes up?

[damon carson]

Obamas going to be in town. Invite him to the Darkness Larry. I know your not a big fan of him but think of all the free publicity! LOL!
Damon

[JamBam]

too many goofy rants on this topic

The minimum wage is set because there are many businesses, including many from this list that would pay much less if they could get away with it. That is why a "MINIMUM WAGE" was established. Think CHINA, THAILAND, SOUTH KOREA, INDONESIA, INDIA, etc about the poor souls who have no rights to minimum wages, yet alone decent or good conditions, that work for low wages, bad conditions, long hours, and no benefits or retirement.

Walmart was featured on a news show a couple of years ago. The case was made that they had beaten the labor cost out of clothes they import to America because the labor cost was insignificant to the total cost of producing and shipping it to the American consumers overall. The consumer wants as cheap of clothes as possible. More and more Americans cannot afford any better.

Today's work climate has become one that it is a race to the bottom. It is a vicious circle. The lower cost found outside of America drives more business away, puts people out of work, who have less. To get any job, they have to take less. The American consumers are victims of their own pursuit of saving money. Business never lowers prices. Any money saved, even on the backs of their fellow Americans, is kept as profit. Normal capitalism.

The entrepenuer who puts out the cash, takes the risk, deals with all the pressures of running a business, including making a payroll, deserves to be rewarded for their efforts. Unfortunately many feel it is a license to trample their workers for their own reward. A lot of businesses have also found out how to do business, pay decent ( or great wages), and still make a good profit.

A haunt that is worth anything, even the best in the USA, if not the world, should be paying ABOVE minimum wage. While keeping costs low is always a goal, there are many things to consider that many do not see. Paying better than minimum wage will get better help over time and keep recruiting costs down. How much is spent on advertising for and training new employees? Retention will create referrals, which will reduce trainging and recruiting costs. If your turnover rate is high, is it the nature of the actors' lives changing and moving on, or is it your pay scale and how you treat your employees? Do you treat them as employees or valued actors that contribute and make a good portion of your show what it is? Actors are more valuable than the average minimum wage employees aren't they? You may even get new employees that have been trained by other haunts which will save you money.

Larry, I will use your Darkness as a simple example. Assuming 50 employees, including make-up time and acting, for the 37 days you were open in 2008, the difference hypothetically in money paid in wages ( $ 6.55) alone ( payroll taxes no included) would be around $ 75,000. The new minmum wage ($ 7.25) will increase that cost by $ 7,000 to $ 82,000. A tidy sum even if you gross $ 700,000+. Now jump that to
$ 9 per hour and the wage cost alone will be around $ 102,000.

The labor cost as a percentage starts in this example at 11% in 2008, and rises to 12%. The cost of paying $ 9 to attract better actors raises that percentage to 15%. That 3% ($20,000) is the difference that a business person has to ask themselves, "Is the success of my show worth that?" Extra money spent on actors instead of advertising should result in customer reviews that will bring more revenue. We all know of movies that have had huge ad budgets, but bomb because of bad reviews.


Just check out businesses that make it a point to pay better than the rest of their industry and you will find happier, more dedicated workers. That is better for your business than an unhappy worker who feels they are being taken advantage of and will tell others, or worse yet be a poor ambassador for your show.


Now for all you anti-union people. Unions represent about 13 % of the workforce. Is this a part of the market you don't want? Put your money where your mouth is by putting exactly that into your ads. "I hate unions, keep your money you THUGS!" would be a good phrase for your advertising. I bet you won't do it.

Many good businesses treat their employees well and pay decent wages because it is the right thing to do, not because of pressure of having an organizing drive by oppressed workers. Unfortunately, workers take the brunt of mis-management at the top in most businesses that struggle to make money.

[Twin Locusts]

The minimum wage is set because there are many businesses, including many from this list that would pay much less if they could get away with it. That is why a "MINIMUM WAGE" was established. Think CHINA, THAILAND, SOUTH KOREA, INDONESIA, INDIA, etc about the poor souls who have no rights to minimum wages, yet alone decent or good conditions, that work for low wages, bad conditions, long hours, and no benefits or retirement.

Walmart was featured on a news show a couple of years ago. The case was made that they had beaten the labor cost out of clothes they import to America because the labor cost was insignificant to the total cost of producing and shipping it to the American consumers overall. The consumer wants as cheap of clothes as possible. More and more Americans cannot afford any better.

Today's work climate has become one that it is a race to the bottom. It is a vicious circle. The lower cost found outside of America drives more business away, puts people out of work, who have less. To get any job, they have to take less. The American consumers are victims of their own pursuit of saving money. Business never lowers prices. Any money saved, even on the backs of their fellow Americans, is kept as profit. Normal capitalism.

The entrepenuer who puts out the cash, takes the risk, deals with all the pressures of running a business, including making a payroll, deserves to be rewarded for their efforts. Unfortunately many feel it is a license to trample their workers for their own reward. A lot of businesses have also found out how to do business, pay decent ( or great wages), and still make a good profit.

A haunt that is worth anything, even the best in the USA, if not the world, should be paying ABOVE minimum wage. While keeping costs low is always a goal, there are many things to consider that many do not see. Paying better than minimum wage will get better help over time and keep recruiting costs down. How much is spent on advertising for and training new employees? Retention will create referrals, which will reduce trainging and recruiting costs. If your turnover rate is high, is it the nature of the actors' lives changing and moving on, or is it your pay scale and how you treat your employees? Do you treat them as employees or valued actors that contribute and make a good portion of your show what it is? Actors are more valuable than the average minimum wage employees aren't they? You may even get new employees that have been trained by other haunts which will save you money.

Larry, I will use your Darkness as a simple example. Assuming 50 employees, including make-up time and acting, for the 37 days you were open in 2008, the difference hypothetically in money paid in wages ( $ 6.55) alone ( payroll taxes no included) would be around $ 75,000. The new minmum wage ($ 7.25) will increase that cost by $ 7,000 to $ 82,000. A tidy sum even if you gross $ 700,000+. Now jump that to
$ 9 per hour and the wage cost alone will be around $ 102,000.

The labor cost as a percentage starts in this example at 11% in 2008, and rises to 12%. The cost of paying $ 9 to attract better actors raises that percentage to 15%. That 3% ($20,000) is the difference that a business person has to ask themselves, "Is the success of my show worth that?" Extra money spent on actors instead of advertising should result in customer reviews that will bring more revenue. We all know of movies that have had huge ad budgets, but bomb because of bad reviews.


Just check out businesses that make it a point to pay better than the rest of their industry and you will find happier, more dedicated workers. That is better for your business than an unhappy worker who feels they are being taken advantage of and will tell others, or worse yet be a poor ambassador for your show.


Now for all you anti-union people. Unions represent about 13 % of the workforce. Is this a part of the market you don't want? Put your money where your mouth is by putting exactly that into your ads. "I hate unions, keep your money you THUGS!" would be a good phrase for your advertising. I bet you won't do it.

Many good businesses treat their employees well and pay decent wages because it is the right thing to do, not because of pressure of having an organizing drive by oppressed workers. Unfortunately, workers take the brunt of mis-management at the top in most businesses that struggle to make money.

many words, missing the point - pathos hyperbole.

[Darkangel]

Cool, never thought I'd see Pathos Hyperbole used on this forum!

Darkangel

[drfrightner]

Brett,

We have gone over this before and we must agree to disagree. I think Unions are outdated, and have hurt the US job market than even Walmart. Unions where 110% needed back in the days when workers worked for nothing while owners lived in mansions. The biggest difference is access to education today you have it back then you did not.

No I can not afford to pay $9.00 an hour and if I did I would go out of business because I'd have to raise my price so high no one would come anymore. Over 10% of every person in America has NO JOB and we're using billions of tax dollars to pay for those people to live rather than spending billions on new roads that put people to work that make 15 to 20 bucks an hour.

Cost of living should come down not wages go up that makes NO SENSE! You can't compete in a global economy when our cost of living passes the rest of the world by 50 to 80%! No matter how you shake it or bake it cost of living can only be brought down by paying lower wages then we can create more jobs here rather than China.

Haunted houses can't afford to hire 50 to 100 actors at 9 dollars you are insaine!!!!! LOL

Tell me who would pay for that? I know our customers if they'll pay it, same as who will pay for Taco Bells new rise in labor cost? Their customers... and so on and so forth. Raising the wages doesn't help anyone that is a democrate talking or an idiot one or the other. All it does is raise cost of living and typically that surpases the rate increases so you are back where you started.

GET AN EDUCATION start there then you don't have to worry about working in some plant for 6 bucks an hour or making tacos at Taco bell.

Larry

[JamBam]

agreed

Larry,

I agree, education is a key to success. I am currently trying to finish my 30+ year struggle to get my degree. You should join me.

You should re-read my post for the part about recurring recruiting and training costs. How is your turnover rate? You said yourself on this board that you had 100+ people respond to you call for paid help at the TW event and only 40 showed up? Did you get any feedback from the other 60 after that to see why that happened?

How about the crew that does the rest of your business? Do you pay good enough wages and benefits to keep them, or are you constantly replacing workers that leave for greener pastures?

You claim that you spend $ 200,000 on advertising, yet don't realize that an investment in your employees might be better money spent.


You can lead the country to lower prices right now. Announce that your blacklight minigolf prices are lowered. Reduce the price of my banner ads on Hauntworld.com, the display ads in your magazine, the subscription rates as well. Then cut the price of your haunts. The Darkness price at TW I paid was $ 125 for two night and others paid $ 50 for the Saturday event. Next year, I offer you $ 10.

So, if you start it, the rest of the country will follow and we can send the country into deflation and we can beat Chinese, right?

My money is that you will decline the opportunity to save millions of American jobs and still blame all the others who refuse to take the step of cutting the financial rope of life as we know it. I already assume you won't put that anti-union stance in your ads either. Just as you won't add the words that you think ONLY democrats are idiots.

In the words of that great Republican Hero, Ronald Reagan, when he quoted first-century Jewish scholar named Hillel.

"If not you , then who, and if not now, then when?"



Now, where is my collection notice to get my million chicken bucks from that guy down south in case they become worth anything if this comes true! LOL And I didn't insult anyone in either post, like many of the posts before by others have done.

[mindtumor]

Larry

If you pay $200,000 in advertising you would laugh and choke on a popsicle if you heard how little I can afford to pay. I am ashamed now. Oh well, I guess it is all relative though.

An interesting topic might be how much someone pays in rent/note and advertising and how that all relates to their attendance.

[Motograter]

It's all Min wage jobs

My brother, my father and myself where all laid off 2 weeks ago. Union members making over $20.00 an hour. Now that I sit at home all day long looking for work. It's all $7-$9 an hour jobs. I can't afford to live off of that. It just sucks!! I never went to college to get a degree, I'd love to but I can't even afford college living off of unemployment checks right now. The world just sucks right now!

[Mr Nightmarez]

Sadly the economy has not only hurt skilled workers w/out an education or little education but it has hit everywhere... I have two friends that are engineers one has a masters and are over qualified for most jobs (sad when people even make that comment) but due to their education and last salary - they are not even being interviewed or considered. (One has been out of work since March and the other since May) The economy and US is at a low.... period.

The key as for the Scale and Minimum wages increasing. Sure it sucks, but you either A) Overcome it and just push onward (B) Drop back on your hires (C) Find other payment methods
As for staff and people that won't return, show up etc... We had that problem our first year but since then we implemented a lot of great incentives, a great work environment, training, and last year we hired 60 people and lost 10. So we had 5 new hires after the 10 but the key is compared to our hiring over 100 people as 40 no showed our first year - it has come a long way -
I believe we lost 20- our second year. And our returns have increased to the point we are looking at only interviewing or hiring 20-25 new people this season.

Remember your haunt is only as good as the blood (actors) and the Skin (Scenes) and you provide the heart. So without all the elements - you're screwed. Plus I would rather lose some skin over losing blood.... IMO.

Good luck to everyone during this economical slump. It's affecting numerous people - College Graduates to High School Graduates. We can only hope the turn is coming, and from projections we might feel the sigh of relief by June 2010.

[Mike Goff]

The Secret of Life

I have known many successful people. I myself have had my moments. When you break it down to the lowest common denominator, success can be defined with one word, tenacity. I would bet a great deal of money that anyone who has experienced extraordinary success, can tell you all kinds of stories about how at some time or another they were faced with a problem that seemed impossible to overcome. They applied themselves, used all available resources to come up with a plan, and excecuted that plan with the tenacity of a Spartan warrior. They do not except defeat, no matter what it takes.

Successful people see hardship as opportunity. Sometimes its the kick in the pants that you need to pursue your dreams.

I whole heartedly agree, that the system is full of obstacles, and ways of keeping your average middle class worker enslaved to the, paycheck to paycheck lifestyle. More govt. interference is not the answer. It is thier perversion of the free market system that has made it this way. I could easily talk all day about the bureacratic obstacle course that a person must run just to open a business.

I lack the communication skills to lead our country back to freedom and prosperity, but maybe I can persuade someone who is currently unemployed to view this as an opportunity to pursue thier dreams. You can do it, but you had better have thick skin, because here comes a whole lot of smack in the face facts.

Don't talk about working 70 hours a week to make ends meet. That doesn't impress anyone, and will not invoke sympathy. Everyone has done that at some point. When you work 70 hours straight without sleep, you will begin to understand what tenacity means, when you develop carpal tunnel syndrome in both arms, you will appreciate the price of success. When you are a 1/4 of a million dollars in debt you will have intimate knowledge of risk. Once you know these things, you will will be embarrassed and ashamed of any prior bashing of the man, and you will have a new found reverence for those who have paved the way for your industry. Like most successful people you will more than likely sit back in utter shock while others criticize you for being successful and for wanting to keep what you have earned. It is all but impossible to explain to someone, what it takes to get there, because it has taken you most of your life to learn it yourself.

There is no ladder of success to climb, it's a straight up climb on a rocky cliff with an unforgiving fall if you screw up.

It can be done in spite of all these obstacles, it just gets harder as we slip into socialism. My dad once told me that if you want to change your standard of living you have to do something drastic. I have applied this advice many times, and each time it has served me well.

As for the increase in wages, we will deal with it and find a way to overcome it. Other haunts will not fair so well and we will absorb thier resources as a result.

My point stands, this is my business, on my property. I have paid a terrible price to build it, both physically and financially. It infuriates me that someone else is going tell me how much to pay my employees, even if paying them more will help me in the long run. It's not about finances, it's about freedom.

For the record, we employ just over 100 people, and our turnover rate averages about 8%. We must be doing something right, but if I wanted to do it wrong it should be my choice.

[Mad Wax Sculptor]

Im not going to name any names but I have seen a few haunts that have paid $10 an hr and even cattered meals and water. This created a creat loyalty to the haunt and made a tremendouse impact on actors and their performances. However they closed shortly after doing on a few seasons as they had no profits and couldnt legitimize the efforts and risks. It can be done but its not realistic especially now.

[Jim Warfield]

Mike Goff! Very Good!

Don't you just cringe when you hear some one say:"I could have done that!" As they point to your hard earned success?
"Then why didn't you?" Needs to be said as you look them right in the eye from a short distance.
(Here comes excuse number 387!)
"I could have made that costume!" I heard as I was being handed the $300.00 first place cash prize for my Grabstein Feinsmukker costume 26? years ago.
The young punk saying this, oozing with jealously was not even compeating in the costume contest and of course probably never hand-stitched tire inner tubes together in his life, which comprised much of my costume, as well as the numerous hours of painting on layer after layer of latex to build up the surface.....like the old advice:"Consider the source".a bonifide.neophyte.
After my house was off and seeing success a man a few years older than myself sat in a local restaurant and told the owner that he could have done the same thing that I had done here.
I laughed so long and hard! His adult work record had him putting in minimal hours each week and often being led by the nose to repeat the simplest work tasks after being on the same job for ten years! Do these attributes sound like something that would fly when creating a haunted house?
"If "Ifs" and "Buts" were Candy and Nuts, we would all have a Merry Christmas!"
(A very old saying)
If someone was paying me just min. wage for all of the incredible hours I have put forth to make my house happen....WOW! $$$$$$!!!!

[JamBam]

Mr Goff is right

Mr Goff,
You are right with that post. There are lots of books on success, but they write about an exact set of circumstances that may never present themselves again. So, it is about perservering on, finding ways to get around or overcome whatever gets in your way. It is about being able to see over the horizon ahead of the rest of the bunch and sometimes even making the road that leads over that horizon for everyone else to follow.

It is not about one party or the other and their policies because they all forget their reasons and promises as soon as they get to the elected office they hold. They all claim there is too much government and then proceed to allow every lobbyist buy their vote and forget the constituents' desire for less.

Larry is very successful and from what he has told us about his younger days, your comments could definetly describe his success story. He has accomplished a ton and makes a lot of money.

[Mike Goff]

There are many pieces to the puzzle, I broke it down to what I believe to be the lowest common denominator. I don't believe that any magical set of circumstances is a huge factor in anything. I believe that there is always opportunity, you have to learn how to recognize it. Like you said it's looking over the horizon. When you get into that frame of thought, and once you have had some experience at success and failure, you get better at it.

An important element to recognizing opportunity is good sound judgement. Good sound judgement is clouded by a sense of entitlement. We are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, that are amoung these are, Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (property, but that's another thread). No one is entitled to a certain wage. To guarantee this , infringes on someone elses rights. When hired help is in high demand, wages will naturally go up, when it is not, it will by nature, go down. To artificially impose a set wage, creates an imbalance and the unintended consequence is more unemployment.

One other bit of info that I think is worth sharing is the acronym JJ-DIDTIEBUCKLE
I learned this in the Marine Corps.

Simply put these are 14 traits to live by, and to lead by. When mastered you can accomplish anything and your employees will crawl through hell as long as you are willing to lead the way.

Judgement
Justice
Decisiveness
Integrety
Dependability
Tact
Inititiave
Entheusiasm
Bearing
Unselfishness
Courage
Knowledge
Loyalty
Endurance

Sorry about the spelling, I'm in a hurry to work on the haunt

[jack]

What is the correct minimum wage/price for goods services?

What the market will bear.

Why pay 7.50 an hour when you can get an entire workforce for $1 a day? A workforce for whom $1 a day is a 'better than living wage'?

We lost fair market value when we started mandating a minimum wage.

Sort of.

Whatever 'minimum' the wage is set at, be it $1 or $100 an hour, that amount will become 'what the market will bear' for the least skilled, newest, and most desperate workers. And prices will shift accordingly.

While many sectors of the economy can adapt, some can't. Assets held as cash lose value, past debt shrinks--but that undermines future credit.

It's inflation, plain and simple.

No amount of raising the minimum wage will keep that wage from being a crap wage.

So why do it?

Because it LOOKS good. "Here, I voted to raise your hourly wage by $2".

The ramifications of devaluing the currency don't enter into it. But they are far reaching--and they slam into the very people that the minimum wage was raised to help with far more damage than anyone else.