Sceamworks of Atlanta Auction

[SomeThingInTheIce]

$500,000.00 to start :shock: If you try and hit one out of the park your first time at bat more often then not your going to strike out. Start small and feel the waters, I can not believe they were talked into spending that kind of money right out of the gate and with NetherWorld dominating Ga.
He//, the Jcees should open up next to Halloween Horror Nights.

[KroneDaddy]

OK, I might be going out on a limb here but here goes. I'm sure they exist, but I haven't heard of any... has anyone been really successful buy jumping into the haunt business, dropping hundreds of thousands of dollars in one year on a super mega multiple attraction?

Most of you I think and other big successful hauntes started small and built upon that. Every time I hear these stories of people that mortgaged their homes and borrowed hundreds of thousands of dollars and were shocked when 50,000 people didn't show up their first year, I just cringe.

Granted my show is real small, all I can really manage at this time with my job, but I hope to build upon it over the years, already have. I started on a shoestring, and virtually remain one, but we have a really good show.

Whenever anyone asks me how to get into the business I caution them about going into a haunt completely balls out, unless they a multimillionaires.

How do you make a small fortune in the haunt business??
Start with a big fortune.

I feel for these guys, and hope they recoup some of their money back. As for Leonard's part in it, I try to stay out of that since I like to get along with everybody. Don't know if anyone could have saved that situation. Good luck to the boys, sorry it didn't work out, I know it hurts.

Timmy

[MDKing]

Is particle board the same as OSB board?

Thanks,
Allan

[drfrightner]

No its a panel made from scraps of wood, compressed and glued.

Its TERRIBLE wood, you can't paint anything on it because all you see is grain. The idiot (whoops sorry LP) that thought it was a good idea to build a detailed haunted mansion out of ANY particle board should be shot! LOL

This is the cheapest wood you can buy!

But the whole thing isn't made out of this wood but a lot is.

Larry

[Greg Chrise]

From personal experience, I would really first hand check out the condition of the wall systems. If they are used Elm Steet OSB walls they were built in 1993 to 1996. Wood 10 or more years ago did not cost what it does today and although these have perhaps a spooky paint job, it has probably reached it's life expectancy.

I would value them at much lower. I paid $10 per panel and spent another $20 per panel remodeling or the equivelant of just buying new to begin with. Remodeling involves taking them completely apart, repainting everything and putting them back together with new screws and culling out any bad lumber. A 185 panel attraction really cost maybe $3,000 to build in 1993. Then in the past 10 years they all have been continuously for sale in the $65,000 to $75,000 range.

As there are other goodies like sound systems and emergency lights thsi might add to the value but again these are also vintage items that in many cases only last a year or two.

I would not pay more than $5,000 per attraction. If you are prepared to pay more, it might only be worth it to understand the floor layout, how it is assembled and what it requires to set up and tear down a temporary attraction. An expensive education of sorts.

It would be a good starter haunt if emphasis was put on props and actors. In the case were the gentleman has had a long running corn maze, yo will find the customer resistant to change or paying more for a few years and only wish to come to the corn maze as they always had so cheaper is better.

It was also the standard that these attractions were set up outdoors and OSB doesn't stand up very good in that application. That being said, in the early 90's OSB was the material of the future and no one knew how long it would last and it took until just the past few years for proper glues to be formulated that would really be approved for exterior applications like roofing or wall liners.

If you did buy one, expect to only get maybe 2 years out of it and be throwing it in a landfill or having a burn pile. However you will perhaps be able to keep some knowledge from the experience. It is quicker certainly to just buy and go and it would be a great addition to a rural event but not at too high a price.

And if you need an consultaion about a triangular grid I will pass on all I have learned for free right here or by email. I believe in matching the size of the attraction and it's contents to the market, having it paid for as you go and not undertaking any actual risk and understanding how long materials will last, what storage concerns must be met and so on.

No matter how much money you have to burn even if it is half a million it takes years and years to develop a stable customer base let alone profit. Maybe there are enough horror stories out there to deter the gypsy shows? It sounds like a good idea to pop into a big town but it isn't ever. It sounds like a good idea to be the second attraction somewhere but it really isn't. This is bottom feeding and you only get bottom feeder returns.

The real story wether it is Leonard or not, has proven that with haunted attractions the business style of going into this with big money and partners turns out poorly in all cases. There are now 20 years of haunts that have gone to auction to recover storage fees. It seems there is always a better paying business than a haunt in a high profile location. This is what has happened to the hundreds of family owned amusement parks over the last 100 years. It shouldn't be a shock. It could have turned out differently and everyone would have wildly prospered. The waters have been tested. Somebody had to try all of these schemes I guess but, as in all business a point of reality comes.

Leonard's modern day speech about getting into the haunt business include 5 pages of cautionary life considerations before diving ahead but, of course lots of money would certainly make up for that seems to be the gamble. Scabbing off the larger market should certainly not fail if you have the money. Yet this is what goes on over and over.

Someone needs to pay ME $500 a day. I'll be sitting here waiting.

This is Greg Chrise reporting for Who Gives A Crap Magazine.

[Greg Chrise]

OSB stands for oriented Strand Board, chips of wood pressed and glued together to a uniform thickness. Like shipping crates from China or roofing.

Particle Board is much finer pulp similar to saw dust as well compacted in glue Like mass produced furniture and cabinets.

The Elm Street units used 3/8 OSB which seems these days impossible to find. You can only find 1/4 inch or 7/16 inch. Plywood such as CDX meaning one side kind of finishes the other not finished and using Exterior grade Glue is the cheap modern replacement for floor underlay or Haunted Houses.

Generally these would be double sided panels that weigh 90 plus pounds each whereas with the CDX it has the strenght to not flex and be one sided panels only weighing about 60 pounds.

Please consult your Chiropractor to see if you are healthy enough to engage in a Haunted Attraction. If you have an erection that lasts longer than 4 hours may be the symptoms of a larger problem.

[Jim Warfield]

Who needs a chainsaw to chase the customers out of the haunted house if you have the previously mentioned undieing erection?
You will be chasing them out with that!
Remember, when tuned up it should start after one or two pulls, no more than that!

[Nightmaretony]

I would like to bring out one thing in Leonard's defense which you will ALWAYS know from his lectures which is a good point and one really anyone should be taking to heart.

NEVER take out a house mortgage to build and run a haunt.

NEVER.

A haunt is a business and is risky, like ANY business. Going in with false expectations is a bad thing. Putting in half a million dollars into a show won't guarantee sucess, even if you went top of the line and hired Disney imagineers to design and build it.

Just ask Ron Howard sometime. (that is my own add)








One thing every single one of us has in common in here is that our haunts are a labor of love. The money is needed as a business, but it isnt our primary motivator.

We are all aware of the risks and have made our decisions for our shows based on our networking on Hauntworld, IAHA, HA and everywhere else.

We keep INFORMED. as a group, and I do think that this is something that helps out much more than simply having piles of money or consultants.










(and if you wonder about my own side of things, got smart, did find a cute 7,500 sq foot attraction for under a grand . Hardest part has been trying to get partners. Going at it solo is a roughie. Farm was a smart move, mortgage is also under a grand. The use of this haunt and another haunt for the movie project will help garner credentials to help get potential partners. And so another year went by with the longest learned and least active haunter in the world....)

[MDKing]

Thnks for clearing that up, it was exactly what I thought it was. That(particle board) is pretty lousy wood to use for haunt walls I must agree.

7/16 OSB is now just $5.98 a sheet, dow from more than $15 a year or so ago. Anyone use this for walls out there?

Thanks,
Allan

[Spookyfinder]

Allan, We use 3/8" CDX plywood for our walls in the haunt and they've held up great for 3 seasons.

Kel

[drfrightner]

Allan,

Gregg might be right it might be OSB, but either way NO ONE should use this wood to build their attraction. It splinters easy, it breaks easy and if it gets wet at all it falls apart. But the worst part about this wood is that you can NOT paint it with any detail because no matter how many coats you put on the wood the chips of wood show up badly.

This is the worst wood to build your maze out of period!

Many panels at Screamworks is made from this wood but not all.

Larry

[MDKing]

So, Larry you recommend plywood only then? I have all my old walls all made with plywood, but I'm going to need a bunch of new ones this year for new scenes.

Allan

[drfrightner]

Yes NEVER use that kind of wood for ANYTHING...its not for a haunted house. Larry

[lurker]

I have one room in which I used OSB board. Larry is right about not being able to paint detail on it. The chips show through, but in a low light area where the walls don’t need detailed painting it works fine. Also, I wouldn’t use it in a dark maze where people would drag their hands over it. It may splinter easy if not coated with several coats of paint. As for it falling apart when it gets wet, I think Larry is thinking of particleboard. That stuff will swell when it gets wet, and fall apart. I literally drenched the OSB board that I use in flame retardant, and it held together fine.
Cheap OSB board is also a good choice for wall panels if you intend to cover the walls with something else as well like carved foam masonry work or monster mud. We built cave walls over OSB board using chicken wire and Monster mud and it worked great. Walls don’t need to look good if you can’t see them. They just have to be able to support what you put on them.

Allan
I saw that OSB for 5.98 tonight when I was at LOWES. I was pricing lumber for a movie set I’ve been contracted to build, and I noticed that all lumber is at a good price right now. If you need to build walls now is the time to buy. Its winter, and there is housing slow down. Good news for lumber prices. Get it before the spring.

[zombierandy]

[quote="Nightmaretony"]I would like to bring out one thing in Leonard's defense which you will ALWAYS know from his lectures which is a good point and one really anyone should be taking to heart.

NEVER take out a house mortgage to build and run a haunt.

NEVER.

A haunt is a business and is risky, like ANY business. Going in with false expectations is a bad thing. Putting in half a million dollars into a show won't guarantee sucess, even if you went top of the line and hired Disney imagineers to design and build it.

Just ask Ron Howard sometime. (that is my own add)



Indeed! I worked at Chamber of Chills Haunt that Ron Howard's company backed about 10 years ago. These Haunts where run by Spencer Gifts. Well , they TANKED! I was very dissapointed with the sets and the scares (very lame). I can understand why they never appeared the following season!