Young Posters

[Dr. Giggles]

Guys all they are trying to say is sitting here asking questions achieve nothing. Go out and build props, and play with makeup and build a home haunt! Tiger wouldnts probably wouldn't say "HAHA, DOUBT IT!" He would probably advise the kid "Practice, Practice, Practice!" and cross his fingers and hope he does and doesnt just give up. Allen taught me this, that you just gotta do it and stop asking questions. If you are legitametly stuck on something and you have TRIED to fix it then maybe ask a question. So dont get so defensive.

[scareshack]

I read this thread a few minutes after being posted and had some mixed thoughts on it.
Im just commenting on the first post.
RJ, no offense, as I respect you , but this thread is going off topic and I wanted to address one thing.

I understand the thread topic “young posters”.
There is to a certain degree to some comments on the younger ones asking a lot of questions on a pro haunt forum. As to age and such. That I can understand.

My issue is with the term “Haunter”.
Yes, im a Home Haunter as many here are Pro Haunters. To say and I quote “So unless you actually have worked in a haunt as Allan has suggested, it’s tough even calling yourself a “haunter” you are more of a “haunt enthusiast”.
This is false and wrong. Why? We all come from the same roots, a true love for haunting.
As RJ has said, most of us started out the same way. But…………..
To say were not Haunters, just Haunt Enthusiasts is not right.

As for saying “qualifing them”.
There are many Home Haunts that blow away many Pro Haunts. Not to may though, but….

There is a lot of “HAUNTERS”, not Haunt Enthusiasts, looking to turn pro from home.
(my issue with comment on haunter, sorry).

I do agree with useless posts asking….”how do I build my first pneutamic prop” yes theres other places for that, not on this board.
This is a great place for ones Wanting To Go into the Pro Haunter Level, to come and read and seek advice.

I wont comment on other stuff as to how to “qualify them” comment.

Theres a lot of good points in this thread, but is going way off Topic for sure!

[Allen H]

I think this thread is going into several topics as opposed to going off topic.
“So unless you actually have worked in a haunt as Allan has suggested, it’s tough even calling yourself a “haunter” you are more of a “haunt enthusiast”.
It was my suggestion that the younger haunters work for a haunt, it was not my words that attempted to differentiate between haunter and haunt enthusiast.
Home haunts are great no one is dismissing home haunts, they help build a fan base for pro haunts. Many home haunters end up going Pro.
Weather you are paid to haunt at a pro haunt or paying to haunt at a home haunt if you sweat and actually build stuff, or even pay to have stuff built then run it, you are a haunter.
Allen H

[RJ Productions]

Hey Scareshack,
We are still pretty much on topic. We are stating that this side of the forum should remain for Pro Haunters as Larry intended it. To that end we are trying tactfully to explain to the young posters why and everyone seems to be saying is “go DO something first, THEN you will have legitimate questions to ask.” Again our young posters do not seem to grasp this.

The internet may be a godsend, but then again it has its major faults. One being that it tends to promote people TALKING about doing things more than actually DOING them. Most of the Pro Haunters giving advice are doing so from actual experience. They have tried it and it works or doesn’t work. They keep saying, go TRY first, don’t just sit around and talk theory.

As far as your comment on being a “Haunter” I would have to disagree. And I can do so without offending anyone because I TOO was a home haunter. I have been on both sides of the fence. I had a home haunt that rivaled pro haunts which lead me to going pro. And I can tell you unequivocally there is NO comparison. I do not care how elaborate your home haunt is it will NEVER compare when you go pro. And the only way you will totally understand is when you make the leap yourself. When I did my yard I always referred to myself as a Home Haunter, not just a Haunter. Every profession is pretty much the same, you call Tiger a "golfer," but you or I would be referred to as "amateur golfers" (actually I really suck so I'd be more of a butcher golfer!). The distinction is always that when pros and amateurs are mingled, pros have the moniker, non-pros add the “amateur” designation. Until you actually derive an income or work for such an attraction you are still a Home Haunter or Haunt Enthusiast. Again I do not mean this as degrading, I always considered myself an Enthusiast until I officially “crossed the line” and turned pro. (sometimes I wish I had stayed on the other side of the line!!!!)

Keeping with our Tiger analogy, he was always referred to as an “amateur golfer” until turning pro. In our industry you are either a Home Haunter, (you operate in your yard during October), or a Haunt Enthusiast ( you volunteer for someone else or just like the holiday) until YOU turn pro. Then you can call yourself a Pro Haunter or just Haunter. On your side of the fence it may appear to be “unfair” but trust me, once you can see from both sides, only THEN will you truly understand. A Pro Haunter can understand both sides but an amateur will NEVER be able to understand the Pro side.

So it seems our thread about the young posters has a similar ring. They can not understand why they can't just talk theory and converse on the Pro Forum because it has to do with them turing pro eventually. Walk the Walk, THEN Talk the Talk.

[Floor8Horror]

yes

I am starting to agree that some people who have never done this before could get some experience before chatting it up here. BUT I do think that there is no where else for the inexperienced to get information. All the other sections of this site in my opinion are GARBAGE! This is the only useful section and it always has been.

Maybe the inexperienced should be reading old posts before coming and asking all these questions.

I also think that they should be called inexperienced haunters NOT young posters. I am still a kid and I have been running a home CHARITY haunt for six years. It is only in October but it costs and all the money goes to charity. So, I am a little offended by the term "young posters" that is me but I have experience.

Also still think this is an off topic thread, but lets get by that and just debate this issue until larry deletes it.

PS I am done talking about the tiger thing because it was an analogy that OBVIOUSLY only I understood and I don't want to try explaining it again.

[Jim Warfield]

A couple of Grade School kids...

Once got to meet Kareem Abdul Jabbar in the NBA's locker room after a big game, the one grade school boy, said, "I want to play on your team someday."
Pretty funny huh?

Until a few years later this "kid" was regulary passing the ball to Kareem and winning championships for the Lakers!
That kid must have had quite an ego to have called himself "Magic"...as in "Johnson".

[Greg Chrise]

Over the last 10 years a number of us have worn the letters and numbers off of many computer key boards. This forum has a search function and most of the questions have already been discussed about 5 times over. Some of us have actually put out DVD's written books, magazine articles (whether our name was on it or not) put on seminars and some of us have not. Yet, in the magazines and these forums, the videos and the many haunt web sites there is already an encyclopedia of information out there.
Over the last few years we have been bombarded with young people unsupervised by parents playing on the internet and dreaming of stardom claiming to be building a pro haunt. It isn't any different to me than someone that has only been to one haunted event ever and is building a pro haunt now. Like all those that spent the life fortunes of 3 people to have a mega event and lost everything.

There is absolutely no way to describe how many hours if not money go into an event. Over the years the word pro haunt has when really getting into someone's mind become the same thing as a home haunt with things in the yard as well as just a really big Halloween party because those asking the questions have no idea what a haunted house is any more than the customers do. All of a sudden $500 worth of OSB that has been outside for 3 months unsealed is worth $75,000.

There is no way to describe how many normal priorities go out the window like paying proper attention to school or jobs or other businesses. Personal relationships and responsibilities shift to keep the big asset of "the haunted house". One consultant even had an intresting seminar once I attended with a 3 page self evalutation, basically saying do you really know what you are getting into and to become properly experienced in each facette of what these events demand. Of course then he would follow it up with if you do know what you are getting into do you have $150,000 to give me right now?

Everyone has to start somewhere and yes, some drift on. Many of them were actually sock puppets pretending to be a 13 year old with a million dollars. I don't know who to take seriously anymore. Another problem is the Fright Forum was the first and the Proffessional Forum just kind of blended into more of the same.

If there is to be any dissapointment after all these years, it is that no one has suggested anything new, wether it is a 13 year old or a 70 year old just starting out. Even not knowing what a haunt is. It seem the Internet is for asking questions instead of brain storming ideas that might have had some thought put into it to come up with something totally new and different. Even coming up with a different atmosphere that might be the haunt of the future.

I spent years working for free or doing senic design for the cost of materials before I could even figure out how to lay out a maze. In other past lifes I did the same thing, hung out for months at shops and labs at my own expense to find out all the big secrets. It's a how you do things in the real world rather than be abnoxious and ever present. There was no Internet. And so our reference of what it was like to be 13 years old isn't right anymore either. They think lots of haunters are into S&M. Now I like spagetti and meatballs but I don't know about these other things they think are going on.

This particular kid is the first one I haven't found the need to beat down somehow but, someone also revealed to me that some posts were made at times that would be during school hours. Are there computers at school or are we dealing with another sock puppet? It has taken 40 years for culture shock to really happen.

[geckofx]

Please

This horse has been beaten to death several times over by now, and yet nothing will be accomplished in the end. If your truly concerned about keeping this forum professional then you all need to agree on what "professional" actually means, then have someone actually enforce it. While Larry tries to do this he has a whole empire to oversee and can't be everywhere.

So what's professional, shall we say someone with at least 10 years of experience, over the age of 35, and clears over 1,000,000 per year at their haunt? Well that doesn't make any sense does it? It is a state of being in this industry, but doesn't necessarily revolve around the nature of your attraction. While someone in their house may not know how to deal with a Fire Marshal, they may have an incredible faux technique down. And what if one of them is an actual professional? An electrician, an engineer, a Fire Marshal, a carpenter, a special effects master? Just because you are not the owner of a haunt does not disclude you from the idea of being a professional, especially in an industry that is this diverse.

It's like the real world here guys, and sometimes people need a bump in the right direction.

[mindtumor]

The problem here is not everyone is applying logic to the topic. The BOTTOM LINE is this FORUM in particular is for PRO haunters to talk with other PRO haunters. If you want advice on starting a haunt post it in the fright forum or you want to talk about your character post it in the actor forum. There are like 20 other forums on this message board. If you don't own a haunt and charge admission and have to deal with permits and inspections post your questions in one of the other 20 forums.

If this were a ONLY TEACHERS ASKING ONLY OTHER TEACHERS QUESTIONS forums would students(NOT TEACHERS) be allowed to ask questions or would they post their questions in the general questions forum(aka the Fright Forum).

[Greg Chrise]

Being a proffessional means that from beginning to end, you know from proven experience how to make money or raise money for charity. You know how much it will cost or how much will be required to donate to reach a goal of some kind. Whether that dollar figure is a guarenteed $1000 to $300,000

Another deliniation is you don't feel the need to walk around and describe you are a pro, people know it from your reputation. You need not even advertise that you are a pro.

At some point you also as a pro realize you can give your soul away as advice and no one is listening. Not because they aren't trying to but, they are not capable of understanding what you mean.

You might be a pro electrician or fire fighter or even master degreed nuclear physisist with 20 years in devloped professional skills and it does not equate to running an event. So many of the required skills are so simple and how would you know unless you have achieved them. Everyone speaks of an internship or an apprentice level effort but, no one is really willing to live that life.

It is part of our culture because things cost money. No longer can someone get their family to pay Leonardo Divinci to make sure there kid knows a trade. They would't send him to the carnival guy when there is the community college a few miles away. So, they don't end up finding out at all unless they are personally passionate about the subject.

Plus there are so many subjects in haunting that any one of them is an individual skill to be mentored in. No one person can be great at all things and pull off the haunt from one end to the other. Building great props is a great prop maker. Building great masks and costumes is just that. Being the guy who moves walls around is just that. Yet each one wants the title of pro.

A pro haunted house is the full event, who gets the money in their hands and how it is distributed. This forum is a great way to put out an idea and see if there is any feed back or think outloud but, do you really think those final kernels of thought that really pull it all together are on here?

Or do the pros keep those a secret because it took so much invested to come to realization? And when just plain ot asked a pro isn't totally going to say here's how you do it kid. Why would they when all there is would be a little knowledge that they will not die with out having told all their secrets. And if you were on your death bed and had some giant revelation would you put it on an Internet forum and feel like now the world knows and will be much better for it for future generations?

What ever hierarchy you want to put pro haunter up against, it isn't the electrician, it is the home or commercial business owner. An electrician knows enough not to make a deal with the renter that lives in the basement or to a home owner that has ripped off the last 3 contractors by their own admission is never happy with their work and refused to pay. And electrician knows not to expect that insurance company to pay real quick and how to stay away from the do it yourselfer that has never written out and really has no intention of writting out a big check for a commercial job. They are just after thousands upon thousands of hours of free information or free work.

Does an electrician apprentice someone only long enough to get THEIR garage done? No there are thousands of garages and other opportunities to wire things and get paid. That one would be total charity that one might be able to afford or not.

So here thanks to Larry we have this free forum. That's as good as it gets.

[Haunted Farm]

I too agree! If this young man has this much interest in the Haunted Attraction industry by all means ask away. For granted, it might not be the right forum for his questions but by no means discourage this young man from asking! Ask away... I am sure that the members will stand behind me in saying that your questions will always be answered one way or another and we are all for sharing the knowledge of our unique industry! Kudos to the young man for having such a driving interest which is hard to find in young people his age

[tchaunt]

I'm sorry, and I know this is going to sound rude, but why do you all keep drawing back on the "He can't be truly 13, he's done this or that or the other!" If you all don't want to believe I'm 13, go ahead. I'm fine with it. I really don't care right now. One thing I want to know is, when the heck did I make these all-so-suspicious posts that should actually make me some 40-year-old?

I'm sure someone will get upset by this post, but I'm getting really annoyed with everything going on in my life right now. I've got a friend who's mad at me because I didn't throw him a party for his birthday and no one except for his "true friend" remembered (even though I mentioned it all day long and he just ignored me). Now, the people who I thought I could consider friends are calling me a liar. Go ahead everyone. Slap me in the face. I'm just a sock puppet.

I guess I'll sound immature or whatever, but I've been watching this thread since it first came out trying to keep from posting anything I'd regret, but I still wanted to figure out what things I'm doing wrong (since this thread is mainly aimed at two people, me being one of them). I'm sorry, but it is amazing how often playground politics are showing up here. I get the fact that most of you all hate me posting on the Pro Haunt forums. The thing is though, I figured I should post on the Pro forums since running a "pro" haunt is so much different from a home/yard haunt. Since the forum is called "Professional Haunted House Chat ONLY" and not "Professional Haunted House Owner Chat ONLY", I figured it would be the appropriate place to post. Like usual, I was wrong. I'm sorry, and I'll-for now on-not even post on the pro forums since I don't have my own haunted house. I offended you all, and I'm sorry. Since I don't have a haunt nor work for a haunt, I'm just a haunt enthusiast and I get that. In no way have I ever claimed to be a pro haunter. I learn from pro haunters, but that's it.

And for those of you who don't like me, don't worry about telling me to "be careful, you may show my age". If I'm coming on too strong/upset, it's because everyone I know pretty much has just been slapping me in the face recently--and some even literally!

Like I've said-goodness knows how many times-in this post, I'm sorry. If I've came on as a 40-year-old, you don't like where I'm posting, or what ever else you all will end up posting about, I'm sorry.

One last thing I'd like to point out, why is it that a 13 year old can be more polite than some of you? I admit, I've made a lot of mistakes on this forum--like sexual comments, posting on the wrong forums, etc.--, but I am at least polite in most of what I say. Don't get me wrong, I've had numerous people send me private messages about not letting this thread bring me down, but many of the people I see on these forums are far from acting like civilized people. If you were really concerned, then why not send a private message to just me and Vincent? It's obvious that we're the main topics of discussion. But honestly, what was the point of posting on this forum when it's mainly only for 2 people? I hardly see how it was appropriate to post anything as a thread about this topic, unless a large group of people were actually posting in the wrong section, etc.. Again, I'm sorry and I know this post will upset someone, if not most of everyone, but I'm just being honest.

On the plus side, half of you all would make excellent pharmacists. I've had to take two anti-depressants (natural herbs) to try to calm down. I'm hurting all over just like I did in 2004 and 2005. (Only some of my closest friends know the significance of those two years for me). Let me just tell you, it means severe depression. 10^∞ equals ∞. And right now, all of the events in my life equal depression. I hope y'all have a great time. I just don't think these forums are the right place for me right now since I don't have experience and I'm only welcomed by a small fraction of the users on here. I may come back later when I actually have a haunt so I can be worthy of your incredible levels of wisdom, but until then, have a nice life and I hope yours doesn't suck as much as mine has the past few weeks.
It really is discouraging seeing some of the people who I actually looked up to almost as much as my grandmother who died in 2004, go so low. It really helps the depression. Thanks. Maybe I'll get some sinister ideas while I'm gone and have a great haunt and eventually be the new Larry. Until then, I hope ya' have fun. Maybe you can scare more people who were very serious about the business away from this wonderful site. Heck, I guess scaring is your job. But y'all have took it too far. I'll be in this industry until I die. I'll have a haunt within a few years. Whether I return here or not is totally unknown to even me right now. I will probably only be using these forums as means of communication to some of the people who I do have left on these forums who are actually friends.

Off topic:
If it's so important that only things talking about pro haunts by pro haunters are posted in this forum, then why'd you post this thread on it? I understand a minor point in the discussion is this forum, but why not post it in the fright forum since it isn't related to professional haunted houses directly? I'm sorry. I'll get flamed for saying this, but I'm just asking.

EDIT: Gee. How perfect. My last post was my 300th post.

[Greg Chrise]

In another thread, HauntedHouse Nut said his talent was to piss people off. Well, when you do piss people off or upset them, they seem to just open up and tell you things provide credability or prove some kind of wrong doing. Yes, this is a haunted house forum. A bunch of sick puppies somehow coexist as well as they can coexist anywhere.

Of course you think it is all about you. It isn't. We have over the last 10 years had some of our own prank us just to test our charity or how gullible we are. We never seem to have enough information about anyone. Part of the fun of haunted houses is acting and back stories and some have indeed been very believable and entertaining. Until such time someone actually sees you in the flesh you might as well be a midget android made by Nissan to fool us.

What I'm catching in all the pro responces is entirely different than what you might think. In order to even have any of these insights you must be heavily dissapointed hundreds of times in order to really evaluate how much you care or how much you have invested.

Some of this is human nature but, widely it is a lack of human experience. It is always about you rather than perhaps the experiences of 300 people and somehow in the last several months you brain has been able to process the things that has take the rest of us 45 years. When I was maybe 10, an 8 year old was proud of the fact that he owned a chemistry set and told me he could make me a Batmobile. Maybe I should now 45 years later just pop in on his life no matter hat it is and ask were my damn car is. You know what we do to liars don't you?

As for another analogy someone suggested, we are not teachers. We are not on any salary from the community or government to play nice or send anyone to the principals office. This is indeed the free market of scary people who in many cases are a bit intense or at least have explored everyone's fears and limitations and figured out how to make a buck off of manipulating those reactions.

The only reason I am being temporarily level headed about things right now is because I have been to the chiropractor the last two weeks. Mine isn't but, some of the haunted houses do have lower age limits to enter, so somehow this forum is a loop hole to get past people having conversations about whether dead baby rooms are a good idea for children?

Friends? A bunch of people that would rather wear a T-shirt that says "Doesn't Play well with others" or "I'm the one your mother warned you about" are capable of being friends? Are looking for friends?

Nope, everyone here might actually hate each other but, it is a business oriented discussion. Even those we totally have no idea why they have a certain opinion about some issues at least make us think. Further there is a big difference between laying 20 questions and providing totally free thought provoking content.

If we were being paid perhaps $10 a post? Jim Warfield would have banked well over $100,000 by now. It isn't really all age related. I have had a 12 year old point out the obvious when it needed to be that way and had 50 year olds think using cardboard is cool and be completely less than 10 years old mentally.

Somehow haunted house people have a high level of sweetness no matter how much the world has dumped on them. Some regions of the country open up a conversation with "what the F arre you lookin at" and if you worm out by that you aren't worth a conversation. Other regons will wait about 6 months of tremendous hospitality and then F you, we know everything you know now and you can take a hike.

How can you even understand this if you are trying to juggle your time between Power Rangers and Haunted Houses. What kind of haunted house are we talking about? Like Scooby Doo? Like Garfield's Internet Haunted House Game? Or at age 13 a haunted house is about Latex clothing and pain? All of those are wrong. It isn't what any of it is about.

Until you have been to about 30 haunted houses, bought the CD seen the DVD watched the videos, had someone read the book to you, been to the dinners the conventions and seminars and met your possible information offering champions, then build your own events from home then went pro and had enough stuff to also put some things in the front yard as well. Did the party circuit and done the charities and then seen how others had failed as well as your own failures and understood why. Untill you have also gaged other peoples success and realized what dysfunctional crap they do not engage in.

Then now you have all of these internet friends saying just give it to me. It is my God given right as an american citizen to know everything in your soul and own everything you have. Just bring it here, donate it to me, give it all up. If you don't why is everyone so un giving? What is wrong with them? Why are they so nasty.

It isn't greed. Everyone here is not sitting on stack of used props. If we are we sell them in one way or another or they get disgarded as junk abused by entertaining another 10,000 people. Should we spend $40 in postage to mail you some rotting latex? Then you will be somebody and the only reason you aren't someone is because no one just gave you what you needed?

Freinds are earned. Creative people have been slapped around their whole lives and somehow migrated to haunted houses. It is all borderline psychotic. Should someone that just up and joined a forum and decided a haunt would be cool is an instant friend? Well, to some on here you are their next customer/victim. That's what business is.

We aren't talking Disney queue line here. We are talking building haunts that are more than places where you stand in line and the customers entertain themselves while they wait. None of us can help that every new person's frame of reference seem to be they went to one sucky haunted house and it can't be that hard to get a bunch of people with dollars in their hands to give the money up. We are talking all the time it takes to equally energize another 50 to hundreds of people to make sure the customers are being entertained rather than entertaining themselves.

Do you think that can all be accomplished is say 2 hours a week? Then you will be rich? Or is it a weird lifestyle with lots of sacrifices.

If someone is telling you that band practice is a must then you aren't your own person for now. And perhaps rightly so. Being in the band is something only young people get the opportunity to enjoy and if you don't do it now you never will.

[Greg Chrise]

And yes, beating on dead horses again and again is what we do for fun. People are wazzed out by the smelly farts of death.

[UnDeRTaKer313]

Hmmmm.
Jeez this topic looks oddly familiar. hahah
Please read this! i quit posting on the forum but came back on just to post this.

Anyway, i have said my part on this topic many months ago and i am not going to restate them as no one took them to heart it seems.
I quit posting on the forums because of the fact i was not taken seriously, being given a hard time by adults on here, and not being treated as an equal member of the forums i was treated like a child.

I would like to say to all of you young kids on the forums, DONT EVER GIVE UP ON YOUR DREAMS!! keep it up kids. I poured my heart and soul into my home haunt at my parents house since first grade. Love nothing more than haunting.
I went through some tough time on the forum and eventually lost all my motivation to go forward with haunting because of it. I then took a good hard look at the situation as a whole and realized that it was all a big joke. I had more passion and desire to haunt than anything else, and i let some adult haunters on this forum convince me that i was wasting there time in asking question and posting on the forum, when in reality they are the ones that are just old guys sitting here on the forums with nothing to do and trying to act like top dog. Notice you never hear anything about there haunts or here them discussing serious issues.

To conclude my story i would like to let you know that through all of the crap this forum has put me through and all of the fake accusations, and being put down for being a kid with a little home haunt.
I AM 16 YEARS OLD AND THIS HALLOWEEN, I AM OPEING UP A COMMERCIAL "PROFESSIONAL" HAUNTED HOUSE.
YES to all you other professional haunt owners, i am 16 years old and will be going through everything you went through to open up your professional haunt. Also my education is still first, 1st in my class, and working towards attending M.I.T.

FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS! and dont let anybody distract you from reaching your goals.

I want to let all of you know that if you need any help in your journey as a haunter i want you to feel free to contact me at nick@hellsgatehaunt.com. Also if you just want to talk about this issue contact me and ill help you out.

With respect.
Nick
Hell's Gate Haunted Attraction