Beginner seeking advice from veteran haunters

[tchaunt]

Um........wow. I wasn't expecting to come home to that many replies. I'll try and sum up my replies short and sweet.
I understand that you can't be successful by only planning, but you also can't be successful by doing without any planning. You have to find the happy medium. I think that's what most of the replies were about (thought more disagreements were involved ).

On a different note:
What are some good companies to purchase high-quality costumes from? I would appreciate any links to their sites so I can check them out. I would like to invest in at least one high-quality costume for the first year. Don't worry about the storyline. I may actually get inspiration from the costume for the storyline.

[Dr. Giggles]

There you go! Welcome to the haunt industry Hope you enjoy it hahahahah
And by all means feel free to call me if you have any questions And im not saying that Jason isnt a great scource because i really like what he does. And speaking of which i think your site is down? I cant get to it for some reason Jason. My number is 760-613-7232 and my email is DementedEntertainment@yahoo.com So feel free to give me a scream if you have any questions about scare acting.

[Greg Chrise]

In summation, where did the money come from? The money comes from the customers. Even is this means doing a $50 service to get gas to do a $1000 or a $1,000,000 job. If something is horribly in debt, it means there is no money. It was squandered or like in todays terms all these companies have been putting on a front on wild amounts of credit and over spending on gotten from customers, investors and credit.

I know my family promised I would get lots of money for myself by fixing all of this but it never happened. In fact their selfesh needs went far beyond normal borrowing even after this was cleared up. No one ever came to me for $30 for groceries it was always $1000. But if you went their home it sure looked like there was some new furniture, new carpet and a nice car.

I left town and only got one visit 1200 miles away from a grandfather who was a victim of money mooching.

After driving all over the country with a buddy who drives a semi, I decided on Texas and started all over loading tires for $50 a semi load. A year and half later I took over that company as they quit due to never paying employee taxes and were to be shut down.

None of this had to do with how or why Haunted houses appealed to me. Sure they can make money but, it is more the skills involved. My back ground made anything from set design to sculpting to animatronics something I already knew. And I saw people that made a living at this with rather large attractions that started out with that one goal in mind from an early age.

I can't say all of my exeriences had no value but, it can be a terrible shame to be old when you find what you really like. All that family business, even being an engineer tech and operating so many businesses even having jobs I thought might teach me something have all been a diversion from just doing what I enjoy doing, that does make money.

Over all there is one point I would like to make here. The teachings of America have been that you establish credit, get a good education and get a good job. No where does it teach to be independent. That is too scary or supposedly only works for that special 5% of the people. All of those ways it is supposed to be will never be told to you to be the wrong way because you are talking to people that are perpetual employees whether they are working at Home Depot in the paint department or the Superintendent of a Nuclear Power plant. They are employees. They only under stand the word job. They aren't going to advise any differently.

I see so many people in desperate situations that happen over night because they did everything in their life the way you are supposed to. Even though I blab on and on for years on this forum you have no idea how much I have been able to make my current company an outstanding service. And then it wraps back around because that is where I get the money to increase the haunts capabilities ever so slightly every year.

I mean I had to look at things while driving today. If you are a person with a job or a career, you probably are working toward having a home and that is what you end up with as an asset. If you build up a business on your own with no partners to fall out or take money and no creditors, you have your business as an asset.

If you walk into a bank with a Corporation certificate they treat you entirely different than trying to open a small business checking account. I have done it both ways.

I actually would rather have a business that has no accounts, no tax liability, no freebees that will in one way or another cost you down the line. And there is nothing that says you can't become familiar with what is bullshit and what are made up limitations in the business world from age 13 and not be dragged down your whole independent life. Why are there all of these forms to fill out and limitations? So you can't be the boss and someone else's competition at the same time. It protects them at least in words but in the real world most business owners are doing everything totally outlaw but at the same time telling you all the things you should have if you want to be like them. An insurmountable pile of shit. You can be a dumbass colecting money just like them with out all the red tape! They never jumped through hoops, why should you?

If any of us had inherited money we wouldn't be on a haunted house forum. We wouldn't be on here passionately trying to figure out every possible aspect of this business and comparing it to every other ind of business on the planet to see if any of those scenarios would make it better.

A long time ago I read this book that described giving a millionair $100 and dropping him off with absolutely nothing in any town he was unfamiliar with and see if he can build a business. Case study after case study of using that $100 to buy some clothes a cheap hotel room and finding some off the wall oportunity where someone had something they were too lazy to market and someone else that needed that something. It didn't matter if it was over stock or wrong shipment that otherwise was a big money loss. They could make lots of money in a week with nothing. No long drawn out plan, no decades of research. Just hit the ground walking and a week later have $2500 which in 1970 was a lot of money.

My first actual haunted house cost $475 for a shit load of used walls and made a charity $8,000. The next year it increased twice in customers. Now I won't say it was effecient. If I had actually had to pay for anything beyond the walls and a coffin and some props over the years it would have cost $30,000 in other people's resources to make that $8,000 and return me that $475.

Other people's warehouse donated, with full liability insurance, actors and management from a charity and later a full staff from a local resort bringing bands and food courts. As a wonderful communtiy event it works even with no advertising.

Mind you I have a reputation from that to work on for rather large events and it only cost $475. If I had know it would work I would have built it out of free stuff accumulated over time but, that can be lots of uncompensated for work. I didn't hav lots of time away from other business to spend on it either. And they waited intill like Spetember 3RD the first year to ell me they wanted to do this 3,000 SF haunt. It was put together by volunteers and communtiy service people and opened fully decorated in 19 days.

The business plan? In my head.

Now adays I have this little list of about 10 very realistic locations and existing events that need something they have been unable to fashion for themselves. Or because they followed the wrong consultants have spun their wheels for years. These are opportunities I may or may not do. Who knows I could be doing my last two commercial jobs right now. What would I do if that were the case? Make an opportunity.

Would I look for a job? Absolutely not. I would look for an opportunity. For the past year I have had one company we subcontract for want to hire me. I don't think they understand. They can hire me to do anything as a company but, I wll never arrive reporting for work as an employee.

Even though I have haunts I'm starting all over with the next one looking for junk instead of trying to figure out where to get $85,000 from. I know where the next scream park is going to be in my region and I'm also inmy head building things for that.

For my regular business, I know where there are 20 places that need thousands of dollars worth of work when the economy recovers and people are positive about spending. In the reality of the world that doesn't mean I'm rich money wise. I might only have $12 by the end of the week but, I know who owes me money from work already done and deposits I have not taken.

If you have someone else's money, are on a salary, have a paycheck, then they can by writes tell you where to be, when and what you should be doing. You created nothing in that scenario. How cold that ever be a happy condition. Especially when you are told it is over or they no longer can afford you or have no more work right now.

I remember being 14 and trying to figure out how the world woks with not so good advice from any elders. Now 36 years later I know for a fact that everyone I met was either not willing to give me an opportunity because I would just do what they are doing and eat their income or they had no clue and were just spouting some society created propaganda.

I know I come off sounding crazy, flippant, irresponcible, possily insulting but, the real story is there are no rules. You make your own very ethical rules that provide some benefit for people and you do it. People are entertained by the fact that you are possibly completely insane but, as far as they know you have never actually hurt anyone and they don't get it.

Somehow what ever you do is of the utmost quality at a reasonable price and shows no overcharging. There are so many other economies in the world that are over looked. Working in trade for something, helping someone out of a jam totally for free, bartering, etc.

[Greg Chrise]

If I need welding, I go to a shop I have done a lot for and use their $2,000 welder. If I need a muffler I go to the guy across the street that I put a skull on his car and he gives me a stainless steel dual exhaust with resonators from a corvette.

If I need a ride I call someone that owes me money but has a new cadillac to arrive in. If I want junk I ask if I can have it. I will even pay for it. The people either need money or they don't and having it removed is like free labor to them.

If you base everything you will ever do on the extra income you "might" be able to save from a job. It will never happen. Or to think you will have so much time to do something will never happen unless you are in the position to call your own shots to some extent.

You need to become so valuable as an independent that you can tell people to take their daily planner and shove it, yet still get called regularly for them to give you paying opportunities. You must be careful. Some businesses are nothing more than buying a JOB! At least with a sasonal haunted house you are really only on the clock one month per year and the clock doesn't start ticking untill it is almost dark out.

I'm not nut case. There is a whole community of people out there in your town who think the same way but, won't tell you how they have it going on. There are just some little phrases that let that community know you aren't a member. You inadvertently say things that identify you are one of the rats in the rat race and not the guy who knows how to build mazes. For money. For cans of dog food. For bicycle parts. For gem stones. For services I might need later. For a job only if I really have no other choice. For a loan you know I'm good for in 60 to 90 days. For something you already owe me. For something I already paid for.

The only, absolutely only form I'm filling out is with the IRS and State related tax authorities. If I hear board of directors I'm not wasting my time. I don't have 4 years of my life to justify anything to anyone. Cerainly it is helpful knowing how to deal with someone that has to do that for you. If you want to be bigger than the maintenance man you don't be the maintenance man unless you are doing some in house spying on a company you will own in a few months. Who do they think they are? Really? I'm not spending money for someone else even as a training exercise. I'm not going to learn the limitations of the world absolutely to the letter. I will spend my own money. If it fails I will go make more money. I will only spend money I have somehow earned. Even if I need a loan, chances are it will be from someone I taught how to make money. Not a bank.

Banks are for cashing checks. They just say they will loan money so you will open an account there. Open an account in every bank in town. I'm going to go on free toaster day. When you appy for a loan have a portfolio of 40 bank accounts that have been cycling for more than 5 years. As people pay you by check, deposit it to the bank it is drawn on so the bank doesn't keep your mone from you for a week saying it is from somewhere else.

My dog says I have to stop typing now.

Just be the best you can be with out joining the army.

[tchaunt]

@Dr. Giggles:
Crap! That just reminded me that I was supposed to call him! I'll have to find his phone number again for this weekend. I'll probably call some time this weekend.
Which one is down? The one I've linked to in my signature shouldn't be working.
The tchaunt.frih.org one should be working. Or is it the blog that's messing up?

@Greg:
Everything you're saying makes perfect sense.
I will definitely try to remember all of it.
I really appreciate how you give me all of the negative stuff. MOst of the things I've heard have been optimistic to an extent, but you give me more down-to-earth things about the hardships of financial success.

[tchaunt]

I was working on a report about the career I want to do when I get older in vocational ed. Obviously, I wrote about being in the haunted house industry. And then, I formed a storyline for my haunt. Here's what I got:

Back in 1864, our first courthouse was burned down by the confederates. No one took this as a disaster. They figured another court house could be built. But our little town of Campbellsville had dark secrets, just like it does today. Inside the courthouse were hidden rooms. They were hid behind book-shelves, beneath rugs, and behind large paintings. These rooms housed Campbellsville's less-than-satisfactory citizens: the deformed, the insane, and the possessed. All of the hidden citizens were burned alive during the fire. Now, their souls are trapped in an old building. The evil within the walls of the building called out to their tormented souls. We have just recently discovered the building. Now, the victims want you to suffer just like they did. They want you to join them in Hell.

So, what do you think about it? Please tell me any ideas to help build on the story, provide links to costumes/props that could fit the theme, or provide any other information. I'll probably use sinister scent's burnt wood scent to make it seem like a fire just occurred. Any ideas/help will be appreciated.

[Jim Warfield]

How about:"When word of the approaching Union Army reached town, everyone paniced!
"Where can we go? They are on horseback and we have almost no horses at all!"
Hide in those passageways under the courthouse, it's a substantial structure it will survive the soldiers comig through town"
Someone left the Cofederate flag flying in the courthouse square and it drew the ire of the Yankees like a bullseyeed target, then they were ordered to destroy the courthouse.
150 years ago or more many countys let bids to the general public to provide housing and meals for the insane and retarded people. Basements became money making warehouses with scimpy rations. Jane Addams crusaded to change such practises.
A little film short they showed us every year in school illustrated this with the punchline being:"Loonies don't feel the cold!"
"But this man is shivering!" Heating the basement was optional, I guess?

I heard that when the US Army was about to invade Manilla that they flew over the city first and the Japanese soldiers decided to hide in the Manilla zoo since the main building was sturdy concrete.
Once they were all inside, thinking they were safe, our planes flew over and dropped their bombs on the zoo!
This was actually planned to work like this.
If the Japanese uniform tailors could have taken in the uniforms quick enough..the zoo's monkeys could have escaped!

[JamBam]

story line is a great start

TCHAUNT

Your storyline has a graat start. Don't be afraid to have someone local go over it with you. Be careful how you word things so you intigue the audience, but don't offend them.

For an example, go to our website www.hauntedhuntington.com and check out the stroy that begins on the main page after the into video. Then read down and click on the link "Want to read the whole story? CLICK HERE" for the big version of the story.

One thing we have to keep in mind with our story line is that we have set ourselves in 1904. That eliminates the classic chain saws and some other things, yet enhances other things we can do. Like Teddy Roosevelt (coming) and a hunter like the elephant hunter in Jumanji. (coming in cgi to our trophy room)

[robos99]

Tchaunt, that storyline is great. I'm interested already. But as Brett stated, be careful how you word things. Obviously this is just a start and is not the final storyline. Personally, I beleive a good backstory is beneficial to you as a designer, since it acts as a guide to what you're doing and the story you're trying to tell. But remember that the audience doesn't necessarily have to know the entire backstory. You could just keep this as a design tool. A little snippet of it is great for advertising, much like you have written already. But don't feel that you must show them the entire backstory, unless you really want to.

You asked for some ideas, so here goes.....

Since you said they were hidden rooms and such you could have a lot of fun disorienting guests. Have the path go through what seems to be hidden walls and things, things that should not be doors. As old as the drop panel trick is, I think it would work well here. Having paintings drop.

Since the story assumed you're touring this post-fire, maybe you could use pepper's ghost to make the fire seem almost fantasy like. Maybe incorporate this "ghost" fire with some of the characters in your story. Don't be afraid to flesh out your story a little bit more, for your use. You've got the basics of who would be there, the deranged, demented, possessed. Now create some characters to fit this. Once you have an idea of what yours characters would be, what they'd look like, how they'd act...then you can start figuring out how to turn fantasy into reality. Rather than just merely looking for costumes that might fit this idea, figure out what you want first, and then find out how to build it.

Of course I always take inspiration from other people's work. I have a collection of pictures from various haunts and theme parks, just to give me inspiration. Maybe browsing a costume catalog could give you some ideas. You're in the brainstorming phase right now...the sky's the limit. Don't get too concerned about nailing down exactly what you're going to do and how you're going to do it.


Brett.....could Teddy Roosevelt come out sporting a chainsaw and wearing a hockey mask? Maybe Teddy was a big hockey fan. And needed an easy way to cut wood. If only Washington had a chainsaw, imagine how many cherry trees he could have cut down.

[tchaunt]

Guys, I'll go ahead an worn you that I'm very pi$$ed off right now because band is such an f'n biased thing. I know this will sound arrogant, but I deserved first chair in All District and the judges GAVE 1st, 2nd, AND 3rd chair to kids unfairly. So if I say anything that sounds rude, I'm sorry. I almost broke both my hands I was so mad (from slamming them onto the cinder block walls of the school).

@robos:
Thanks. Just wondering, what were a few of the wording issues. I had a really good version that I wrote at school, but I lost the paper so I sorta' improvised as I went. I'd say one of the worst things was the "But no one saw disaster in the burning" part.

Actually, I was planning on designing with that idea in mind. I was thinking, instead of walking through a door into the next room, have the guests discover the "hidden" entrance. Ex: Walk through paintings, closets, bookshelves, etc.
I'd say the drop panel would fit in really well with the story.

That's a really great idea. I hadn't even thought of that. Would it be best for me to use one of those fan set-ups with the colored fabrics and the lights to create a fire illusion to use for the PG illusion?

About the costumes/characters, I already have my main character in mind, along with a few minor characters. I just haven't developed them yet.


@JamBam:
Thank you for checking out the post.
How exactly could I word it better?
Also, on your website, the short version of the story has a mistake.
"A place know as...
The Thirteenth Floor " I think it's supposed to say known.

I would love to visit your haunt. I freakin' love things that look/are old. The only thing I like more is steampunk (which is still a modern antique).

VAN PELT! I don't know how I remembered that. The hunter's name (the bounty hunter) was Van Pelt. He never liked the one man who was trapped in Jumanji because he didn't "fight like a man".

Anyway, thanks for the help.

[JamBam]

Teddy Roosevelt

Robos99,
Teddy may be hunting a bull moosein the future in our story, but not with a mask or chainsaw because of our time restriction. Funny idea though. We have one of the best Teddy Roosevelt impressionists in our town and he is my insurance agent. I am going to ask him to do some video for some sort of theatre scene or cgi, but somewhere down the road.

Tchaunt,
Yes, I caught the missing "n" and the webmaster has promised to n me, I mean the site. There was also a rewording of our storyline I have requested he do. This is an example of what I talked about in a previous post.

Here is my request: Please change the story page ... Things turned sour for the Warwicks when charges of animal mutilations and sexual abuse in the secret rites of the Circle caused them to summarily disband in May of 1892.

Please change it to -- Things turned sour for the Warwicks when charges of sexual misconduct, and of using animal parts, in the secret rites of the Circle caused them to summarily disband in May of 1892.


As far as band, life is full of politics and your band may be vicitm as well.

[tchaunt]

@JamBam:
So basically, your webmaster is a wee bit lazy.

So I need to just fix a few sending confusing. Okay. I can do that (after I finish my English Lit. homework).

I know. I hate stupid politics. To me, it's just childish. But hey, it's life, it's meant to suck. And we (the haunt industry) are here to make it suck in a fun way. *Laughs maniacally*

[tchaunt]

Hey guys! Here's yet another question. For my first year, should I do a haunt or a dark "maze"? I figured it would be cheaper to do the "maze" but do you think it would draw enough crowds?

[Dr. Giggles]

Dont freak out about crowds your first year. OK? Make going to your haunt a tradition for the smaller crowds. Focus on your people and your show. If you have a great show and care for your customers they will come. I suggest making it the best show you can with the money you have and then you will start getting customers. Like its been said before this is a very buil up process dont expect to start out with people beating down your door. I would suggest just printing out about 200 flyers at kinkos or some printer place or off you computer with the name of your haunt, admission, hours, and location. Just go around and put it in peoples doors and mailboxes. This will get you quiet good exposure while not hurting you wallet badly. But yeah i would focus more on the show and the fear factor then the advertising and getting people factor. Because if you do inevitably word will spread of "The most freaking amazing haunted house iv ever been to!" and the people will come. But yeah start out with a maze :P They are always a blast...for actors AND patrons hahah. Its stimulating for the brain and can be scary.

[tchaunt]

@Dr. Giggles:
So, I'm assuming you mean I should focus on higher intensity for lower money. Meaning a black "maze" would actually be a good way to start?