Midwest Haunters Convention - Industry Perspective

[graystone]

Dang Patti

Crucify? I dought anyone here has experianced the pain that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ went through. I think that word is way to harsh for here. All I see is different views from different people. Again no one here is all right or all wrong. We just all have different opinions. Shane

[actiondeath]

No, criticizing a person's appearance or status for any reason brands you as a Nazi. You know nothing about the people you judge, man. These folks who wear unflattering clothing might run circles around you. What makes you any better?

[MDKing]

Run circles around me in what way? And actually what you said has absolutley nothing to do with being a Nazi. Being a real Nazi only means you followed the Nazi party in Germany in the 30's and 40's and then a Hitler supporter after his death. That's what a Nazi is. It's not a descriptive term as you apply it.

And again, don't twist my words because like you say about these people, you yourself know nothing about me. I might be the one running circles around You. Let's keep to the discussion and not move towards attacking each other personally and take it to a level one of us might not be able to handle.


Allan

[hauntedhousenut]

Relax

I think the perception of potential buyers being offended by some in costumes is somewhat of a reach, unless your agenda is to rid these conventions of those groups, and how many here have been to other non haunt conventions, excluding IAAPA, that you don't see all of the buyers in suits?

Is there a dress code instituted for such trade shows?

Allan why the hostility?

[MDKing]

I would not call it hostility at least on my end. It would be simple to say it's only about costumes at professional trade shows. I have not really witnessed someone actually placing an order while in costume anyway. The majority of people walking the tradeshow floors in costume are not buyers but actors or enthusiasts or staff members, from my perspective, I could be wrong though.

Our industry problems go way beyond just this topic. But it seems these will not be addressed so maybe we should agree to disagree.
Allan

[actiondeath]

Thanks for the history lesson. Did you Google that all by yourself? In my post, the term "Nazi" was applied as a metaphor, which is a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God” (I can Google too). I meant that the poorly dressed or costumed, unattractive people you speak of as menaces to 'the industry' may have very successful businesses. Quite possibly *gasp* more successful than your own. "Running circles around" is another metaphor, in case I lost you there. If you could yank yer head outta yer arse long enough to socialize and network with these drunken fools, you might be surprised. That is the point I was trying to make.

You probably do run circles around me... I earn a modest living as a freelance videographer... Being a single income family of four, we can't afford nice clothes like y'all have. Yes, I'm a simple man. If professionalism and success is defined by body type or clothing, as you suggest (please... tell me in your next post that I'm twisting your words), I am scum, but I'd bet I have more fun. At the end of each day, I'm thankful. And it's not about being different, it's about doing something I love to do.

[hauntedhousenut]

Allan

You're right sometimes it's better to viva y permita vivo.

[Speculo]

I think there are really THREE topics we are really talking about here...

1) Non Buyers
2) Extreme Content
3) Show Floor Time


1) Non Buyers

The bigger objection I have heard from vendors before doesn't relate to the wearing of costumes but rather having non-buyers take up show floor time and catalogs.

It isn't really as critical at the regional shows because there are fewer attendees, but some of the vendors complain about this at Transworld - they might miss sales if they are giving the pitch to non buyers when buyers walk by.

They also worry when all of the catalogs are taken by non buyers and they run out.


2) Extreme Content

As to the industry perception issue, we all cringe if someone gets on TV and does something stupid - remember the Scarefactory guy?

Its the razors edge once more - we love to ride the line - but how far is too far in some peoples eyes? Dead Acres/Haunted Hoochie totally rocks and I respect them to the bone but they go into uncharted territory with content as does The House of Shock - We as an industry love our bad boys but they scare us when the cameras are on... Remember Sheldon? Is this the topic?

Are we afraid of extreme content on the show floor (ala extreme haunt actors) getting on TV?

I think some normal looking guy who thinks he knows it all may be even more dangerous, on TV, maybe some random board member of an orgainization who thinks he know the answers for example....


3) Show Floor Time

All this talk about Socializing - I think the issue here is that vendors don't like Seminars, make-up wars, and haunters pavillions taking eyes away from the show floor. THAT is the issue. Who cares if there is a party at night...bring it on!


The issue really is about distraction from face time with customers.

HOWEVER if these seminars, make-up wars etc GET people to the show... can the vendor complain?



This is what I have heard from vendors and others ...I think these are the REAL issues deconstructed.

MY opinion?

As a buyer they don't effect me. What do the vendors think..thats what matters.

As a Haunt owner on the PR side I want everyone in this country to know that Haunts are Scary, Haunts are Safe, Haunts are Fun, and Haunts ROCK!

If they spin negatives at you, spin it back - we are healthy, we are not afraid of the economy, we are going to make you scream!

Do not show the media negatives, do not show them weakness, do not give them controversy. Make them go WOW that its amazing!

When any of you get on TV forget the fun of chaos and put people in the seats..thats what I say!

And if you are nasty I love you but don't show the cameraman your dirty diaper.

Maybe that is what is being said here? Have power, be professional be scary and

get them on your side, not looking to take you out.

Thanks!

[actiondeath]

I think some normal looking guy who thinks he knows it all may be even more dangerous

Gawd bless him... Sometimes I miss ol' spooky Dave. Haha... Not really.

Thank you, Ben. The voice of reason, as always. I love you, man... In a totally hetero way. Totally.

[Spookyfinder]

Action,

Search for any article about professionalism... the way you dress is a MAJOR factor! Body type, hell no... but, professionalism and dress basically are one in the same. Also, other things like... language, posture, body language, and knowledge all fall under professionalism. Just sayin'. -Tyler

[shawnc]

Allan, I think I can paraphrase all of your comments for you, if I may: There is a time and a place for everything.

As a vendor, if I spend $10,000+ (a small figure for many of them I'm sure) for a booth, transportation, setup and employees at a show, I really don't want to spend my limited time available chit-chatting with someone who isn't going to buy if there are other potential customers standing in line. That may sound snobby but put yourself in the same position. Say you figure you can talk to five people an hour in detail. If those five are actors and a couple of buyers walked on by because they saw the other four people in line, you just lost money. Yes, those actors may be haunters in a few years or they may be able to plant a bug in the ear of their boss. But there are only so many hours in a day, and you can only talk to so many people so you have to make your time count.

Is a suit the right dress for a haunt show? Maybe not. But at the same time, how many haunt owners/prop buyers have the time anymore to dress up in costume in their own haunts? Most are so busy with the business and operations aspects that personally scaring people is a distant memory. And if they feel the need to be able to dress up a few times a year, there are better times and places to do it than when they are going to do business.

Yes, a bunch of outrageous characters draws the media cameras in. But I think it's a disservice to everyone involved to imply that this is the way the owners of million-dollar haunts regularly behave. I would have said we are near the end of the time when those in charge think crazy behavior is the norm and something you strive for. But then that guy from Scarefactory made the bunch of drunks comment and they got a TV show, so I guess we aren't there yet.

I won't have time to do my haunt this year but do have some time to work on a couple of product ideas that I have so I may very well be a vendor at some of these shows next year. So I think I have a right to an opinion on the matter. There are many, many aspects of the haunt industry, and a big problem I see on these threads is that people are comparing those different aspects with one another just a post apart and getting mad because they are confused about what they're actually referring to. Yes, costumes are a huge part of the industry. But maybe the show floor isn't the best place for them. The seminars, the street, the bar, the informal get-togethers that night, the classes, yes. But like I said when I started, there is a time and a place for everything. And just because we are in the business of scaring people, it doesn't mean that we should be in make-up 24/7.

[Spookyfinder]

Amen!!! -Tyler

[MDKing]

Actiondeath, no I did not google it but apparently you did, and copied word for word. Secondly, did I not advise you to step away from taking this to a personal level? I never once said that some of these "drunken fools" as you call them do not run successful businesses more than my own that I don't doubt. I do plenty of networking, but I find it more suitable to network to sober people less intent on partying, that's just me. But don't make it out like I'm coming off as "holier than thou" because that is not the case and there are MANY others who think the way but would not say it, this I know.


Tyler, you are exactly right, that's one of the points I was trying to make all of those factors come into account for professionalism.

Shawnc, very well said and that in large part is what I was saying, Thanks!

Allan

[Barry]

ShawnC is correct. It is all about time. The vast majority of the vendors do not care about actors being at a show as long as they do not waste their time. I would think that seeing someone in costume would make it easier to "pre-qualify" a person as a non-buyer but sometimes those in costume get into their character too much and disrupt sales.

It is my belief that the answer is not to restrict tradeshow access. There is something to be said about excitement and ambiance creating an atmosphere that drives sales. I like it that MHC has become the show for haunt owners to bring their support staff to and many haunt owners instruct their people on the rules of the the show floor however some do not.

Everyone needs to be mindful of what the vendors are there to do and that is to move product. For many of them this is their sole source of income. The hours they put in on a show floor are like a work day and they have to make it as productive as possible. For those few days that floor is their workplace and everyone should respect that.

[graystone]

Dang

Look its simple! Has Transworld ever thought about giving the Haunt owner or manager a different colored badge? It seems the thoughts is that the vendors are not reading. My badge has always stated I am owner/ceo and I can see where it would be hard to read everything. So lets say the owners have a oh blue or red badge and everyone else the black ones? Vendors your thoughts please? Ben mentioned extreme content ummmmmm how much more extream can you get with dead mutliated bodies? And I am sorry but weither you have a guy in a suit and tie or in full make up if a TV crew comes in and in the back ground you see all this morbid props and pieces its gonna offend some people point blank! Hell no one knows there is no bigger animal lover or owner than me in this industrey but hell we all should be glad PETA is not on our ass for all the mutliated animal props that are out there! Lastly can the vendors not post a sign that states " We are sorry but due to the rising cost of prenting and our products we prefer to talk and give out information to the Haunt Owners or Managers only. We are sorry for any inconvenience but the rising cost to show and the print cost we are forced to enforce this policy. I think most would respect this. Its really simple. Shane