I wasn't on the tour, but Fear Fair has always been one of my favorite haunts to attend, and to do work at.
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ScareAtorium haunt review - bus tour
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Brian Warner
Owner of Evilusions www.EVILUSIONS.com
Technical Director of Forsaken Haunted House www.Forsakenhaunt.com
Mechanical Designer (animatronics) at Gore Galore www.Gore-Galore.com
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Tater I think you have mental issues seriously. LOL. Don't bring up my haunt because you have nothing to say. You came to my haunt and offended a bunch of people and I got like a zillion complaints about you. Of course you'd think a haunt that grabs and touches people is a 5 star experience. You came to my haunt and offended people while you drank piss. LOL
I think you are missing the point totally Tater... MOST HAUNTED HOUSE OWNERS would never have someone like you stand out in front of their haunt and offend people, or touch people, or open a haunt that is unfinished from a safety standpoint.
BTW I'm not bashing you or Fear Fair... I'm merely pointing out the facts brother that haunt owners do not want to be touched, they don't want to be offended, actually they want to be treated like royalty. So if Fear Fair can get away with that stuff in his market I'm positive that he's aware that 99.9% of other haunts in the country don't agree with that type of attraction. So why do it for haunt owners. It was a mistake they don't want to be touched. That isn't bashing on Fear Fair it's more to the theme here that when you do haunt tours you have to remember who you are doing the tour for... Other haunt owners. Haunt owners do not want to be touched or have vulgar things said to them... Because they don't allow that in their haunt. So when they don't do it at home they get really upset and complain when it's done to them on a haunt tour.
The point is I wouldn't do what Fear Fair is doing but I'm not him he can do whatever he wants... If his customers love it then good for him. If no one is getting hurt, sueing or blah, blah great. I don't know those things I don't run that haunt. Again the point is HAUNTED HOUSE OWNERS DO NOT WANT TO BE TOUCHED. In the future I'm sure if he opens again he probably will tell his actors don't touch these people because they get upset about it.
It's really not that big a deal... But every haunt that has touched customers from a haunt tour either on purpose or accident we've seen the haunt owners blow up about it and this goes for every haunt tour. I learned this when you Tater showed up at my haunt stood out front dressed like an old woman and said vulgar things to people. I got so many complaints I can't even tell you... Do I think you are funny yeah sure for every haunt though.... Ahhh no way Jose. For some maybe but not mine and not 90% of the haunts out there. Tarter you are a special brand and you take a special kind of haunt to appreciate what you do.
Haunted house owners DO NOT like what you do I know I got the complaints to prove it.
So in closing the point here Tater is really simple... FOR HAUNT TOURS that is what we are talking about here THEY DO NOT WANT to be touched, or have vulgar things said to them, and safety would be the #1 issue you should deal with. If your haunt is ready that is one thing but DO NOT open it for haunt owners if it's not 110% done on the safety side. Haunt owners are going to be very unhappy and very cruel with their comments.
Larry
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While I was unable to attend this year's bus tour, Fear Fair is one of my favorite haunts and I've had the pleasure of acting there numerous times, including when they opened for the Hauntcon bus tour seversl years ago. There have been numerous "touching" haunts on the bus tours over the years and majority seem to enjoy them (ex. Bloodview, Haunted Hoochie, and Darksyde Acres to name a few). I think Btett puts on a top notch show and has an amazing eye for detail.Katie Lane
Partner/VP
Raven's Wolf Art Productions (www.ravens-wolf.com)
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Bansheette Morningstar (www.bansheette.com)
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Lol
When did Larry speak for 99.9% or 90% of haunt owners. Not really sure what studies or scientific data you are getting at here, but that's a joke. I love to be touched in haunts, I welcome it and I'm a haunt owner. To call out Fear Fair over some unfinished scenes or bullshit on the touching is complete horse shit and then to lump ALL HAUNT OWNERS into your explanation is even more crap.
Tater could come all day to haunts in Louisville, Ohio, Indiana and never have a problem with his Grandma routine. People in our areas anticipate touch haunts and would look at us funny if we didnt. We rarely and I mean rarely ever have a complaint for touching. Usually some meathead kid who had his girlfriends hair played with. To say NO HAUNT SHOULD TOUCH ON TOURS is ridiculous. Who are you to say that? Why should a haunt change their show for a handful of people. If a haunt OWNERS didn't want to be touched. He/They should have researched, listened on the bus, or not gone to the haunt. If you didn't know or if they didn't know. It's not FEAR FAIR fault .
Lastly, I've been to Larry's attraction and while it's porn for the eyes prop and design wise, I've never felt blown away or moderately intrigued By the acting. I didn't take to forums either to say how shit is was in that aspect either, because I have respect for haunts. But all the crap I'm reading infuriates me as an owner.
I've been to 20 haunts that out act by leaps and bounds St Louis haunts. I've been to the Darkness, never jumped and never been so tired of clowns or 3d at times. Different strokes for different folks is the theme here. Some people like different things, doesn't make that haunt bad.
Calling this place horrific and terrible is crazy in its own right. I've seen the worst haunts. I've seen bad haunts... this attraction is not one of them. But because of some scratches on an arm and your were touched.... post pictures please. Let's see these scratch marks that gave you all pretty much PTSD. When did haunters, actors in haunts going thru other haunts become such pussies.
FEAR FAIR is nationally recognized and I don't mean spending 5K dollars on ads to make them recognized. They evolve yearly just as Darkness does. Larry doesn't speak for me as a haunt owner nor do I believe he speaks for the so called 90 to 99.9% of owners.
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Larry Buddy
Just so you know where I am this year here is a list of haunts that hired me this year, since im so bad and vulgar lol
Sept 16-17 Hundred Acres Manor, Pittsburgh
Sept 23-24 TBA
Sept 29-Oct 1 Woods of Terror Greensboro, NC
Oct 7-8 St. Lucifers Asylum Flint, Michigan
Oct 14-15 Factory of Terror Canton, Ohio
Oct 21-22 ExFEARence Sharon, PA
Oct 28-29 Hobbs Grove Fresno, CA
Nov 11th Hundred Acres Manor Pittsburgh, PA LEGENDARY HAUNT TOUR
Oh No it seems that a haunt booked me for a tour that has alot of owners on it....guess they lost their mind lolJesus loves you, but everyone else thinks you're an asshole.
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Originally posted by Tater View PostLarry Buddy
Nov 11th Hundred Acres Manor Pittsburgh, PA LEGENDARY HAUNT TOUR
Oh No it seems that a haunt booked me for a tour that has alot of owners on it....guess they lost their mind lol
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Haunted Hotel, I think you are totally off base here. I don't think Larry is saying he's speaking for anyone about their taste in haunts or if this or that haunt is good or not good. I think what he said was that the mass majority of haunted houses do not allow their actors to touch people and on that note he's correct. Where do you get off saying he's speaking for you or any other haunted house owner about liking or not liking Fear Fair? Maybe you should re-read exactly what he said. I totally understand what he's saying because he's saying haunt owners do not want to be touched, grabbed or mauled touring a haunted house.
Now that you want to get all technical I for one did not think the haunt itself was anything close to being called 'WORLD CLASS'. This haunt left me feeling like it was unfinished for the public. I do feel why some haunters or actors would love this attraction. Some people love gory movies some like classic horror movies while some appreciate a good love story. Everyone has different tastes without any doubt. The concept of a touching, grabbing haunt would strongly appeal to some people but certainly not most. I didn't appreciate not knowing our group was going to be grabbed, pushed and touched.
Take away the grabbing, pushing and touching it was still nothing close to a 'WORLD CLASS' haunted house. Maybe just maybe if I toured it without being touched or grabbed I could have paid just a bit more attention to the haunt rather than telling their actors not to touch us. Mark
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Mark, I can appreciate your viewpoint. However, I wanted you to know that I am not just operating in a vacuum as to what my customers prefer.
Each year we do a customer survey following the season that we promote via the web site and our social media accounts. We offer an Amazon gift card as an incentive to be awarded from a random drawing of those who respond. We don't get a huge response, but I believe it is a representative, if small, cross section. For three years ending in 2013, one of the questions regarded the touch issue. The results were consistent every year, so I haven't polled on that question the past few years.
These results are from 2013 and are the same as 2011 and 2012. Over 75% want the touch element. Like I said, it must be a regional thing.
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Let me set the record straight and more specifically for this Haunted Hotel Kentucky...
1) You are totally totally off base here... totally. I never said I'm speaking for anyone I never said that. You should totally take that back. What I said was and I'm 110% POSITIVE in what I'm saying is that the MASS MAJORITY of haunted house owners DO NOT let me repeat DO NOT ALLOW their actors to touch customers. There is a reason they don't allow this stuff... this is a VERY PC WORLD we live in here and customers come out and say they got groped in a sexual way that could end your business. Yes its possible they are lying and probably are... but why take that chance? SO TO BE 110% CLEAR when the mass majority like in the HIGH 90% of haunt owners DO NOT allow their actors to touch or grab customers do you really think they want to be touched themselves? If you could use common sense for just a moment don't you think the people who don't approve of touching would consider that the CARDINAL SIN RULE #1? Again if you use common sense don't you agree that the haunts that think touching and grabbing is a horrible idea won't they come out of that haunt upset?
look this has happened before with haunt tours that allowed touching... they got scorched. PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE IT OVERALL... so you are going to get scorched period when you do it for a haunted house tour.
DID I SAY I DON'T LIKE FEAR FAIR???? DID I SAY HAUNTED HOUSE OWNERS DO NOT LIKE FEAR FAIR?? NO I DID NOT so I did NOT speak for you about your opinion of Fear Fair of any other haunted house for that matter. What I said CLEARLY was that the mass majority of haunts do not allow touching and consider it a taboo.
Additionally what I said was haunt owners who do haunt tours are making a mistake if they allow their actors to touch those people because of the negative reactions. Run your haunted house traditional with no touching ... go back to what you do during the season for the local customers who like it or appreciate it.
2) You make mention that our haunt is lacking with acting... well let me be clear about that. During peak season we may have as many as 80 actors working there during the haunt show we have about 50. Additionally many of the actors who come and act are actually actors who do NOT work at the Darkness... we get emails from people who come to the show and ask if they can guest act. We don't turn anyone down. We run the haunted house as a straight haunt during Transworld with the actors who want to show up and do their best working in a scene they've never done, working in a haunt they've never seen before. I think we do a great job for a one night only event.
As for Clowns... well I'm going to disagree with you totally. The haunted house industry when they come to our event we interview people leaving. Overwhelming the reviews are the most positive for the clown section than anything. Our clown house is NOT THE DARKNESS, its an additional add on haunted house that NONE of our customers even pay one penny extra for...most haunts would upcharge for us its just added value. The Darkness is the meat and potatoes and Terror Visions is added value. So we don't agree there.
Our clown theme is totally separated from The Darkness and is considered as a separate attraction. We have poured a ton of money into it which is why its hard to change the theme at this point. We'd have to sell it to someone and start from scratch if we even considered changing it. That would be very costly.
3) My main point is not to criticize anyone but to point out to those who want to do haunt tours what has been learned from previous haunt tours...
When you look at the World now all the US does now is apologize for like everything the World has become so PC. When you do haunt tours no matter what you do you are going to upset someone which is why its best to always side with the caution direction. Meaning should I allow my actors to touch people... AAHHHH NOOOOOO!!! Why because there will be to many in the group that will be upset.
Tator working the lines saying offensive things... yeah he's funny and I said as much and some people love it but others hated it. I got more complaints about that then anything I've done since the 2nd year of the tours. Was I offended NO again I think its funny... but many people got so irate about it they wanted their money back. We've seen other haunt tours that allowed touching only to turn around and make claims their girlfriends got grabbed sexually.
This is why YOU JUST DONT DO ANYTHING that might ruffle the feathers of too many people.
Fear Fair should have advertised the haunt up front as a touching haunt... then how can you complain they didn't. Had they mentioned it was a touching haunt they would have had LESS NOT MORE people attending. My #1 question I hear day and day out during October is... DO THEY TOUCH YOU!. Follow up... WE ARE NOT COMING IF THEY CAN TOUCH YOU!
Some people like it the majority doesn't.
So do I like Fear Fair... I don't know never been it may be great I don't know never said that I didn't like it. I said they shouldn't allow touching on haunt tours because haunters overall do not like it. Do I like Tators act ... sure he's funny I'm not the type who gets offended by that stuff but there are many who do. If you have a hard core haunt maybe he fits right in, but for haunt tours I'm not looking to hear from 20 people saying that was out of line.
So again do a haunt tour side with caution when trying to decide should I or shouldn't I... that is all I'm saying.
Larry
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Follow up to Brent... and this would be a great topic separate from this thread totally.
Do customers want to be touched I'm telling you 110% NO THEY DO NOT! Yes there are people who like it but if your objective is to have the biggest haunt making the most money, which helps you expand your business then touching shouldn't be part of the equation.
We have haunts in this industry doing 100,000 people, heck Universal Studios the biggest of them all doesn't allow touching and they are doing hundreds of thousands of people.
If the biggest most successful haunts in our industry don't allow touching and the amusement parks don't allow touching that should tell you something.
My biggest complaint from customers is I GOT TOUCHED! My #1 question I get before a ticket purchase is 'CAN THEY TOUCH YOU'. If you say yes they won't buy a ticket.
So we will basically disagree with your concept I think its the wrong approach especially if you are looking to run big numbers. If your niche is touching and it works then it works so do what works. What I've learned about this industry is everyone has a different way of doing things.
That is perfectly okay.
We don't all agree on everything and that is also okay. But make no mistake the majority of haunts frown on this approach and all amusement parks as well. Its not for no reason... customers overall do not want that type of experience. But again if that is what you do and it works great. I already said that.
I wouldn't do it but I'm certainly not telling you what to do only sharing some facts and opinions. No matter my strongest opinion is simply for haunt tours just don't do it for every reason I already pointed out.
Larry
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ScareAtorium haunt review - bus tour
Originally posted by drfrightner View PostFollow up to Brent... and this would be a great topic separate from this thread totally.
So we will basically disagree with your concept I think its the wrong approach especially if you are looking to run big numbers. If your niche is touching and it works then it works so do what works. What I've learned about this industry is everyone has a different way of doing things.
Originally posted by drfrightner View PostI wouldn't do it but I'm certainly not telling you what to do only sharing some facts and opinions. No matter my strongest opinion is simply for haunt tours just don't do it for every reason I already pointed out.
Larry
Larry, we do not disagree on a lot of issues as much as we come at them from different perspectives. You are concerned with absolute broadest appeal to the masses and I am more concerned with pleasing and growing the audience who enjoy the type of show we do. At this point, we have ten years of reputation as a touch haunt and even if I were to want to change, it is completely impractical. It would diminish my existing customer base and take years and years, if ever to reach those who may avoid us over that issue.. You have given me pause for thought, however, and I may offer some non-touch nights this season, just as we do a lights on friendly monster matinee for the little ones each year.
One other lesson I learned on this tour, that I would encourage you to think about is the guest actor thing. I had just a very few guest actors for this tour and I did not go over the specifics of what they were going to do with them. One of them was the source of some complaints and probably set the tone for the two folks here to have a negative impression. Some of the language I learned he was using would not have been allowed even in my normal show. So, I will be much more careful in that regard in the future.
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Fright Manor Haunted House
I would like to respond to the no touching in a haunt. I own Fright Manor Haunted House in Indianapolis. We have a no touch rule and this is why. The attorneys in the law firm, that represent us, all say, we do NOT touch or they will not represent us. There are the obvious reasons for this. Also, our professional insurance people tell us the same thing. You do NOT touch or you will not have insurance with our company. It's pretty common sense that you don't touch. I asked my attorney, what if they sign a waiver. He says, that waiver is worthless. If you hurt someone, especially by touching, grabbing or throwing them down, then you are responsible. You don't know what physical disabilities a person may have, and you can only make it worse. If your lawyer or insurance people are worth their weight in gold, you listen to their advice.
Now, we have plenty of customers that ask us if we touch at the ticket booth. We tell them no, and there is the sigh of relief. Oh good they say. Then, we hear the horror stories of how they got hurt or molested, from other area haunts. We just cringe. There are so many other ways to entertain them with well decorated rooms, diversions, humor and plain out scares. I feel sorry for those haunts that do scare. It sounds like they are not getting any law or insurance advice. They have a total disaster in the making. I know this is my two cents worth, but that is how we do it in Indy at Fright Manor. Tom Angrick
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Brett, I really enjoyed my tour of Fear Fair. I already shared my comments about your haunt in a post on Haunters Hangout. I’ll list my comments from that post below, but then I will try to address some of the other comments in the previous HW posts.
This was my first time visiting Fear Fair. I like the design, many of your scenes were detailed very well. Saw some really good scares; especially the Tesla coil scene. Good acting, costumes and makeup. Your actors worked hard in the heat. The actor on stilts with the mask in the long hallway was very impressive. The zombie outbreak areas were my favorite. Jail cells were good too and I also liked the swamp scene. Sound and lighting were good, but there were a couple areas that could use more sound effects. I'll bet the outside areas with zombies would be very scary in the dark. I had a little trouble with the stairs, but I’m sporting an injured flipper. Concrete scratches were mentioned in an earlier post, and the touch actors and cursing disturbed some people on my bus. There were several trip areas that you might want to work on. Food was good too! Thank you for hosting the bus tour.
Now for my comments to the people who posted complaints about Fear Fair. I have opened my haunt for bus tours and I understand the challenges opening for haunters; especially during the off season.
Yes, the rough concrete was a problem for some people on my bus. It was dark in the concrete maze and there were narrow areas that made it hard to get through without running into the walls and getting scraped or scratched. Several people from my bus showed me their road rash and scratches. A couple of them were at least 2” x 2” wide scrapes. I had a small scrape on my right hand. When we lined up for the lights-on tour; the actor wearing a strait jacket at the entrance saw the blood on my hand and asked me how I did it. I told him it was in the cave area and he said “that’s why I wore the long sleeves”.
I understand Brett and his team are aware of the rough walls and will have them corrected before the season. It’s unfortunate they ran out of time preparing for our groups before they could get the walls sanded. They’ll learn, improve and be prepared.
I wasn’t aware Fear Fair was a touch haunt. I don’t operate a touch haunt, but I know several that do. There are a couple reasons why I don’t allow touching and they’ve all been mentioned already in previous posts. I didn’t see this disclaimer on the web site before the tour and you didn’t mention it. Otherwise we would have told people on the bus tour so they would have been prepared. There were some people on my bus who were upset about the touching. I don’t think it was just the touching, I think it was the rough actors that really disturbed them. There were a couple actors who were shoving people against the walls and a couple zombies who wrapped their arms around guests and tried to wrestle them to the ground. At least that’s what guests thought was happening to them. One person in our group was bitten on the shoulder in a zombie scene. He showed me the teeth marks. He said he didn’t mind the rough stuff, but he didn’t like being bitten.
There were a couple actors using extremely foul language. It doesn’t bother me, but I don’t find it scary. I don’t allow our actors to cuss at or in front of our guests. Just a personal preference.
I think it was 5 – 6 actors who were very physically aggressive, most of the rest of them would touch you or bump into you. Overall, I thought the acting was very good, except for the few exceptions I just described. Unfortunately the few rough ones ruined the experience for some people on the buses. Many of the people on the buses were haunt owners or support staff and they were on the tour to see haunts. I think they wanted to be entertained while checking out your haunt. This is a different crowd than what you typically see on a seasonal night where your guests want to be scared. I’m sure most people attending your haunt go there for the extreme experience of being touched or grabbed.
On our bus; Fear Fair was the overall most popular haunt on the Thursday bus tour. The authentic buildings with the detailed scenes and great costumes/makeup, made it the favorite for most people on the tour. But there were several people on our bus that were offended (because of the issues described above) and it ruined the haunt for them.
I think each haunt owner has the right to operate their business the way they want to. As long as guests know what to expect and no one gets hurt. We’re all different and we’re providing guests with unique experiences. You can’t please everybody all the time, so each haunt establishes their targeted customers. I think everyone has the right to express their opinions; but if it isn’t constructive criticism and gets personal, then feelings get hurt and nothing will change.
Kelly
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I like this thread and do NOT view it as anything personal or an argument. I've said this many times these types of agree to disagree topics sometimes produce the best information. No one has to agree on anything and they shouldn't actually. People should take from this or anything what they learn or agree with and apply it to what they do in the future.
As for haunt tours to be perfectly clear... I POINTED OUT CLEARLY the first year we did the tour for Transworld I got hammered by many people. Even Jen Thayler came over to me and said what happened at your haunt tour because she got complaints. Brett got a bunch of complaints but it was his first haunt tour. My points are geared to ANYONE who decides to do haunt tours listen to what I'm saying because I'm giving you great advice from someone who got ripped apart for my first tour, and the Vegas tour OMG I never seen so much venom.
I remember the outrage over Dead Acres their first time I had to delete the threads about it so many people screaming at each other... over the same thing touching.
Brett, I agree with you that many haunts do touching in fact almost all the haunts in Niagara Falls do it... doesn't mean I agree with it. With that being said I fully realize there are haunts out there that allow touching, we even have haunts today who torture people. I don't do any of that stuff and I know without ANY DOUBT that its well north of 90% DO NOT TOUCH!
So yeah there could be a couple hundred who do ... but how many of those are doing 100,000 guests? Look at House of Shock ... they are a struggling haunt that many in the haunt industry feel are cutting edge. Just for the record they are beyond cutting edge they are a devil worship haunted house in reality... so yeah way beyond cutting edge. Are there people who like, no love, no worship the ground House of Shock sits on? AAAAHHHHH YEAHHHHHHHH... but why then are they a struggling haunt? Why is it a haunted house down the street in a much smaller market in Baton Rouge makes 5 to 10 times more money? Hmmm... they don't have a theme about devil worship, they don't touch their customers, they don't do any of that stuff.
Point here is touching haunts, extreme haunts, blah, blah are not going to appeal to anything but the hard core fans who I would agree LOVE IT and SWEAR BY IT however their endorsement doesn't pay the bills. Remember that.
Larry
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