work on the haunt today here some image

[Dark Tiki Studios]

Who know's maybe it is bad ass in the dark..

That's was my point too... Tough to really judge how things will look until you see it complete, and in show lighting.

I also think it takes guts to post pictures on this forum that don't look like The Darkness. Between this forum, the magazine, and the Travel Channel, we see A LOT of coverage of the 10-20 haunts with the highest operating budgets in the country. We see them over, and over, and over. I've only been to one of them in-person, yet I can name every one by heart. And they ARE truly awesome and awe inspiring... But they only represent the top end of the industry. Every town's summer carnival can't be Disney. Every band can't be the Beatles. Every haunt can't be Headless Horseman. Nor should they.

I've been skulking around these forums for years, but I've never dared to post a single photo of anything I've created, because I know it will be held up for comparison against the ultra-budget mega props that populate the richest haunts (that are constantly celebrated here). I say kudos to Mud for keeping it real, and posting pics of his real haunt!

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

I agree with scary bill, it is possible to have fun at a $6 haunt. I run a school haunt twice a year on a zero to $50 budget that is mostly actor drivin. The younger crowd is a severely untapped market. We bring in quite a chunk of change for my department. It's fun for the kids and families and it doesn't take much to get them scared, lol.

Do we listen to what is being said? This is a joke. Every one has thier own tastes, some like cheesey, some like very detailed. If you look out there it is amazing how much FUN you can have at a $6 haunt. Do you expect the same as a $20 haunt, no. I help with a small non profit haunt. Our props suck, we have alot of bad actors, but we still do a good buisness(5-6000/year) We do have a lot of repete customers, we found our nitch. Some are disappointed, but as a whole they enjoy it. We have some good actors that preform well, yes I have witnessed wet pants on customers.
I think we should encourage, not discourage. BIGGER DOES NOT MEAN BETTER It sounds as though the big haunt guys here are saying how bad this is and it should be shut down, why, are you worried that people will find this as scary as your mega priced haunt. There is room for all kinds of haunts, kind of the same with any buisness.

As for the old school statement, I would be proud to classified old school. I still remeber back to the old Jaycee haunts, heavy on the cheese, but some of the best most fun I had. I look at it this way, most of our customers seem to have fun, and that is where it is at.

Just my opinion

[NightmareAftershockLLC]

I have to agree with Allen on this one, sorta:
If you're going to do that particular motif mud, then do it well. Layer the scenes to make it seem much "deeper" of a feeling than it actually is.... I understand this is a work in progress, but I think some people (including myself) want to see more than a "broad daylight" photo.

A night or dusk shot would help to reduce the feeling of cheesy and increase the feeling of vagueness...

Just a thought.

[tonguesandwich]

You should take the snake out of the cage and put it on a string off a branch. Have the cage broke open like something escaped.

[Greg Chrise]

Jake, I can get you into the top 7 but you have to pretend you never heard my name before.

[scary bill]

Haunt snobs here!

Do we listen to what is being said? This is a joke. Every one has thier own tastes, some like cheesey, some like very detailed. If you look out there it is amazing how much FUN you can have at a $6 haunt. Do you expect the same as a $20 haunt, no. I help with a small non profit haunt. Our props suck, we have alot of bad actors, but we still do a good buisness(5-6000/year) We do have a lot of repete customers, we found our nitch. Some are disappointed, but as a whole they enjoy it. We have some good actors that preform well, yes I have witnessed wet pants on customers.
I think we should encourage, not discourage. BIGGER DOES NOT MEAN BETTER It sounds as though the big haunt guys here are saying how bad this is and it should be shut down, why, are you worried that people will find this as scary as your mega priced haunt. There is room for all kinds of haunts, kind of the same with any buisness.

As for the old school statement, I would be proud to classified old school. I still remeber back to the old Jaycee haunts, heavy on the cheese, but some of the best most fun I had. I look at it this way, most of our customers seem to have fun, and that is where it is at.

Just my opinion

[Deathwing]

Greg you seem to have an axe to grind with the top 25. You mad bro? Lol
This thread isn't about them it's about Mudsticky and the quality of pics he posted.

Jake

[Greg Chrise]

You can really put $200,000 into your local community and help thousands of people figure out what they enjoy in life or you can form a complicated LLC and file bankrupsty being in debt $200,000 because some industry told you what to should do.

Insert Anarchist slogan here.

[Greg Chrise]

Behind the scenes, as a rogue consultant, what is really happening in this industry is even people with successful businesses and suppliers are additionally getting back into smaller and more mobile lower number of people activities. Exactly like the new guys with a one night party. This is what they missed and when they actually saw a benefit. Something more controllable and more enjoyable that didn't take a staff of 50 people in payroll to pull off. Didn't take 5 years of training makers and builders to sustain. Things people would think are cool as a corporate event or back yard party at a McMansion. The number of conversations I have been in over the last year for events and vendors has been astounding.

The come out of the box like you have been doing it for 20 years thing doesn't seem to work at year 5 or year 10 for a lot of proprietors in the real world. Whether researching anything everyone is offering, taking advantage of what ever education either paid for or free. You have to do something.

Meanwhile, some of the top 25 haunts only really have 5 cool scenes and that is all the photos you have seen so you don't know they spent money to advertise on the list or what kind of delapidated location they are in or how small they really are or that there is absolutely no parking. You don't know what is happening 1200 miles away. Your mind has filled in some dream world.

[Darkangel]

Greg follow the whole thread there was a lot of advice and constructive criticism. It's not a negative thread at all.


DA

[Greg Chrise]

You have no idea how many full blow sizable yet lame attractions there are that have seen no more than 500 or 800 a year at $10 a pop and they make $5,000 or $10,000 per year and that is total profit. Everything was made from junk and the place it was held at was provided. So if you were a highly enjoyable low impact bottom feeder attraction that made $10,000 a year for 20 years, that's $200,000 you can invest in yourself or it is 10 years of retirement money!

Or it is how much impact you had by spending that money in your own community helping other people! You know what happens to a community if you take away even $10,000 that became expected every year?

So much of what is called "industry" is already getting mass quantities of people to do lots and lots not because there is money, because they will learn by doing. They can express themselves, learn skills over time. And skills generally do take time. So where was everyone supporting people when they were trying to learn and were willing to do everything for free or just for the cost of materials? That's real networking, not trading business cards over a beer, go help someone for a day or two for nothing. Don't just be a consumer and a critict. If you are just a consumer and a critict what good do you think your $20 really changes the world or people's lives. Or peoples ability to do things long term.

I applaud Allen for sending information. Why does it always have to be critism. Why can't it be here are some ideas. Or call me I have some stuff near you that is better than what I'm seeing here. That's how I roll. And long term decades later is pays when you least expect it. Even when you weren't asking.

[Greg Chrise]

So...there is all kinds of creepy places out there you will never know about, be invited to and see on the 25 top haunts list. I know of a few that are kind of folk art that have crashed the 6,000 people and 8,000 people per year and people really dig it!

Why they dig it is because they came with freinds and it is one of life's memories and not because they all attended some block buster movie in 3D that hollywood told them to go to. Getting into some even lame, strange setting is cool because you have to look around and wonder what everything is and why it is there. Maybe the people are not right and you are in their hog pen to hell and maybe you should be afraid? They aren't quite right, maybe even genuinely and wearing masks made out of paper mache and tin foil and they have weapons and you don't know where you are or how far away your car is. Maybe they are screwing your car up where you will never leave as quick as you would like. You can suggest and demonstrate all sorts of things that do not require an air compressor, sensors, electricity, getting a loan for hundreds of pounds of someone elses latex.

So is this forum a hot line for only the top 25 haunts and top 100 vendors? Nope. Is it enabling? Maybe, letting someone have a life and some serious life lessons and tremendous emotion and serious laughs, both in doing and in attending.

See shit like that was never written in any "You too can have a haunt" book or business plan. As things are visited, other people get intrested, even people with money spring up, people sponsor and invest in this enjoyable thing and then guess what you have the experienced educated customer at Transworld 10 years from now or sooner. So screw everyone worried about being thought of in comparison to a trillion dollar theme park. Some of those are pretty lame too and they missed the fundamental point of being wildly enjoyable. They may be inspiring but for the wrong reasons.

If we are enabling, we should be making sure people can make some money, support themselves and eat. Someone new that is really trying will develop for 20 or 30 years. Now everyone is expecting 30 year achievement right out of the box or don't show up? Really.

[Allen H]

"Allen we'll have to agree to disagree because there is no way in hell ill pay to see junk."
***I dont want you to see junk, I just want to be able to if I would like to see junk lol.

"Also if everyone thinks the big haunts are not scary maybe the public doesn't want to be scared then because the big detailed ones grow and see 10's of thousands of guests with hours to wait just to see. When I was at Knotts those haunts weren't scary but they sure packed them in."
***This is pretty much my point exactly, some people like haunts that are scarier and other like the more produced shows. It takes all kinds.

"Look at the Darkness in St. Louis. Do you think they'd be waiting and lining up to see a haunt as pictured if it opened up against the Darkness?"
****I dont think the photos that we saw were marketing photos from Mud by any means. And yes, I think they would if the price is right. why compare a five dollar show to a $60 show?


"You're a nice guy and you do a great job of keeping a positive around here. Please don't be offended, but I see a very old school vibe to your thinking and process."
Great way to preface what you see as an insult lol. I see no issue with old school. I hope as you evolve in the business you realize some simple truths. Expensive and produced with high polish does not mean scary and does not suit all tastes. The secret is that there are no "new school haunters" they just arent ripe yet.

"I think ANY new school haunter sees House of Torment and 13th Gate as a model and moved away from the do it yourself model."
****this is silly, you think they didnt "do it themselves"? I think they would disagree. We all do it ourselves, we are haunters.
Allen H

[Deathwing]

Greg if it were as easy as paying $5000 to be on a list then every haunt would be in it! The 13th Gate would be on any list period. I don't get jealous over the big haunts and discredit their accolades because its something we all should strive for. Pay or no pay they are still the top haunts this industry has. Discrediting them is worse than mudsticky's haunts because they are the front line haunts promoted to the public and your potential next customer.


Jake

[Greg Chrise]

Even the top 25 haunts aren't all that and it is simple to become one, just give the guy who makes the list of 25 top haunts about $5,000 and your on the list.

What I see here is possibly a small private party and it has not been mentioned there is a mega haunt being produced here. Still this is where the possibilities are developed. Some freinds get together and the topic is researched a bit more and then things happen or they don't and it remains an intresting small private party on private land.

My next haunt is going to be called Voodoo Hopscotch of death where I "borrow" some chaulk and go nuts on a city street and instead of it just goes 12 hips and skips and you are done it goes on for several blocks while actors do things along the way. Total investment zero. It can happen anywhere spur of the moment even at a public park. It would be created by and enjoyed by freinds that accumulate on some social networking site and any donation recieved is total profit. In fact it is art and a happening and I could get it on TV! For free and have a lot of people chuckle for some period of time.

That's entertainment.

So many people have followed the model of you have to go big and have a budget and gone in the hole, gone into debt and completely missed the point of this being fun or entertaining or scary or an enjoyment of life. Enjoying life is not being a consumer and paying some guy who has lots of stuff's advertising budget.

Now Mudsticky having 5 misspelled words in every sentence really bothers me but, even being experienced and somewhat brilliant, I can't help to have been fascinated over the years how with perceverience and support of family and the commnity lots of people keep going and are loved. It isn't all about money. It can be about sharing an evening and expressing yourself.

You hear it all the time how even an number of the 25 top haunts are doing it for "the industry". No one is making lots and lots of money that isn't already just survival expenses or already ear marked for some haunt project. People are iving the haunt thing and living pretty damn modestly and all their money goes into the things they have created because it has to as opposed to you want to. So it better be fun and you better have experienced that had nothing and it still worked experience.

Like it or not there is a 20 or 30 year business cycle and the modest performances of today are what it is going to be in the future and not having anything kind of guys can adapt to economic changes and technology uses a whole lot quicker than some business that has all of their budget devoted to something already.

I have worked for many of the big names and supposedly successful haunts and when it came time to pay me they could not. So I'm a big advocate of not over extending ones self, not forming vast partnerships where everyone needs their money on some schedule date or it all ends up in court. I'm an advocate of make it yourself if you can, invest in bigger props as you can. But generally any endevor doesn't even get recognized by any location untill it has been around for 15 or 20 years and until then it is not automatic no matter how much is spent or what it looks like and if it doesn't have that spirit of fun and enjoyment, it doesn't last 5 years. Then there is always some life responcibility that has to take prescentant over having a haunt. Basically they quit because it is a lot of work and doesn't make lots of money or they have no help and lots of opposition.