This is HORRIBLE ... Time for a Change

[Mike Goff]

sam elliot.jpg Joe Stalin called these types of people "useful idiots"

[BrotherMysterio]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]14452[/ATTACH]
Joe Stalin called these types of people "useful idiots"

Gotta respect the 'stache . . .

(That gave me my laugh for the day! Thank you!)

C.

[Mike Goff]

This one is probably my favorite

[Darkangel]

Evidently they are not easy enough to get, because the only person in the school that had a gun was the bad guy. One competant person with a firearm could have saved a lot of lives today. So simple yet even the most obvious things can evade some people.

Huh? Why would teachers or elementary school students need to carry guns, because that's all that's in a school. What you think the janitor should have guns in his broom closet? The gym teacher should stash guns behind the box containing the hula hoops? The music teacher has a handgun in the closet next to the xylophone? Dumbest thing I've heard today. It's a school, guns have no place if dumbasses with legal guns despite having mental issues didn't have guns made for killing people this disaster would have never happened.

If a sane man snaps but has no guns he won't shoot people, but that same man snapped with guns lying around now has the ability to kill dozens.

DA

[BrotherMysterio]

. . . didn't have guns made for killing people . . .

What other kinds of guns are there?

C.

[Mike Goff]

Huh? Why would teachers or elementary school students need to carry guns, because that's all that's in a school. What you think the janitor should have guns in his broom closet? The gym teacher should stash guns behind the box containing the hula hoops? The music teacher has a handgun in the closet next to the xylophone? Dumbest thing I've heard today. It's a school, guns have no place if dumbasses with legal guns despite having mental issues didn't have guns made for killing people this disaster would have never happened.

If a sane man snaps but has no guns he won't shoot people, but that same man snapped with guns lying around now has the ability to kill dozens.

DA

Funny you should say that, I know a janitor that is an IDPA champion. This guy is more proficient with a handgun than any member of any SWAT team in the state. That's not really the point, but it is ironic.What I am suggesting is that CCW should be allowed in schools because statistics prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that active shooter scenarios do not take place where people may be armed. Statistically speaking active shooters either commit suicide or freeze within seconds of encountering resistance of any kind. In every case that I have studied, the shooter is so engrossed in shooting their victims that anyone could easily sneak up on them and strike or shoot. I would never advocate anyone leave a firearm unsecured where an unauthorized person could have access to it. If you took my concealed carry class you would know this. In fact you would probably get sick of me preaching the gospel of gun safety and responsible gun ownership. My views are based upon experience and fact. Your views appear to be based upon assumptions and emotions, so from my point of view, someone like you attempting a discussion like this with someone like me is the dumbest thing that I have ever heard.
BTW I would gladly offer free private lessons to any school employee who would like to obtain the skills to protect their students.

[Mike Goff]

I should also point out that the biggest advocates for allowing CCW in schools are police officers. The man who influenced my decision to support this step is a former SWAT commander who has been an advisor to the Attorney General. He now owns a private firearms school in southern Ohio, and makes a nice living training police agencys and elite military units from all over the world. I guess he must be a dumbass too. It amazes me how people who have no idea as to what they are talking about can have such a strong opinion. Stop watching Oprah!

[Pumpkin King]

Huh? Why would teachers or elementary school students need to carry guns, because that's all that's in a school. What you think the janitor should have guns in his broom closet?

If a sane man snaps but has no guns he won't shoot people, but that same man snapped with guns lying around now has the ability to kill dozens.

DA

Play along with me on this one for a minute... let assume that a teacher had a gun in the classroom with the intention of protecting their children from situations like what happened today.

Of course, in the event that what happened today happened again, that teacher would be able to protect the children from the shooter. That's a gimmie.

But then there's that the argument that the teacher could turn on the kids herself, which is absolutely true. But this is the case with or weather or not a gun is present in the classroom. And regardless of weapon availability, if someone wants to do harm then they'll do it. In the current system, couldn't a teacher execute a school shooting even easier than someone outside of the school system?

Secondly, there's the fact that the students could accidentally be hurt with a gun in the classroom, and yes to an extent this is absolutely true... but that's why there's training for things like concealed cary permits that would need to be transfered to the teachers. So yes there is a risk factor but with more training and knowledge that risk goes down exponentially.

Now, imagine if every teacher in America carried a weapon. All of a sudden a school doesn't seem like such an easy target for a shooter; he knows that if he goes in there he would get stopped before he did any serious killing, so he choses to go somewhere else or not go anywhere at all. Someone said earlier "that's why they don't mess with Texas," and I think that's completely accurate. After all, if guns really were the problem, wouldn't this have happened in the South?

[Mike Goff]

Ohio has had CCW for 8 years now. In the years leading up to them actually passing legislation the arguments were all the same. People said that it would be like the wild west, or that people having guns would accidentally shoot someone. They said that CCW carriers would succumb to the temptation of robbing places since they had easy access to a gun. They said that police officers would be put at risk during traffic stops. They said that road rage would escilate to deadly force. 8 years later none of these things have happened, not even once. If it did happen it would be all over the national news and they would make sure that we never forgot about it. I'm not saying that any of these things couldn't happen, because with numbers the chances go up. I am saying that it will never be the epidemic that all of the gun haters predicted it would be, or should I say hoped that it would be. As a society, we really do ourselves a diservice when we let our emotions rule our lives. When we allow assumptions to get in the way of common sense, it hurts everyone, and it frustrates the hell out of me to hear people who have no idea as to what they are talking about spew complete bullshit and righteous indignation. I would never require a teacher to carry a gun, that is ridiculous. I think that those who are willing to take the responsability to do so, should be allowed, and should be given the best training that money can buy. Even if no teachers opted to do so, the fact that they could would be a powerful deterent.

I have a CCW class to teach in the morning so I am off to bed, I will check in tomorrow. In the meantime let's use our heads.

[Darkangel]

So now we have have these teachers out at the gun range learning to shoot and kill instead if doing their jobs of teaching our children.... Lets just weaponize everyone then and see how that works... Smh


DA

[tonguesandwich]

Weaponizing everyone has worked very well in other countries dropping gun violence to almost zero (Switzerland).

[Jim Warfield]

Gun Crimes Go Up

When there are large differences within a society as far as income level, success. It is a trust issue. (These are statements I heard on the radio today, kind of seems to make sense?)
Japan usually sees about 2 deaths a year from guns. They allow no guns, I guess?
Could Tasers ever replace guns in many instances? I'm asking, because I don't know?
Self defence, home or business defence. Not wanting to ever be a dead or a crippled victim is , I believe, what the majority of what most people are worried about.
Granted a true enemy of possibly a personal nature with hate in their heart and murder on thier mind will get the drop on the innocent and the unsuspecting .In such a scenario getting the second shot would usually never be good enough.
There are a myriad of problems with this whole discussion and few viable , real answers short of extreme solutions that a large number of our citizens would not be pleased with.
What was the number once written about as far as how many murders the average 12 yr. old kid has seen on TV and in the movies?
How many movie/TV murderers and woundings have any of us ever seen realistically shown with the aftermath of screams of pain, terror and the trigger-puller finding remorse and guilt? Almost never is what I remember. It's just pouint, squeeze, a recoil happens and those bad guys would often just lie down and then be forever quiet. So clean, quiet and quick.....but it's fiction.
The photo of the trigger-puller today looks like a very average young man, that nobody would even look twice at if they were trying to forecast what a serial-killer might look like.

[drfrightner]

I think there will be a HUGE debate on capital hill on gun control this is something Obama wants so he's got the ammo now... I'm not really for or against anything specific I don't know what to do I just know something needs to be done. Hearing about 20 young children being murdered is to much to take. I'm really sad today thinking about what has happened. If there was anything I could do I would do it!

Larry

[Mike Goff]

So now we have have these teachers out at the gun range learning to shoot and kill instead if doing their jobs of teaching our children.... Lets just weaponize everyone then and see how that works... Smh


DA

I guess that if you are a half glass empty kind of person you could say it like that. I prefer to say we train teachers how to defend themselves and how to protect the lives of their students. Keep in mind it would only be teachers that would volunteer. If they were to take lessons from me, or lessons from any Firearms instructor that I know, they would also be taught that deadly force is an absolute last resort. They would be taught other ways to handle the situation first. By the time they sat through my class, they would have more respect for how precious human life is than they had ever had before.

I can see that you are having difficulty understanding this concept. For me it is a clear choice, 27 dead is not morally superior to a teacher or a janitor puttting a bullet in some deranged lunatic in exactly 1.5 seconds after the first shot was fired.

[Mike Goff]

I think there will be a HUGE debate on capital hill on gun control this is something Obama wants so he's got the ammo now... I'm not really for or against anything specific I don't know what to do I just know something needs to be done. Hearing about 20 young children being murdered is to much to take. I'm really sad today thinking about what has happened. If there was anything I could do I would do it!

Larry

I fear that you might be right, Larry. I think that we will remember this day not only for being a tragedy, but also the beginning of what is to come. What's coming is going to be really bad for all of us. I suggest that everyone do some deep soul searching and figure out just how much you love your freedom. It is important to give your brain a road map to follow so that when we are faced with tough decisions, we make the decision that is consistant with our beliefs and values.