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  • #16
    At risk of being thought of as "another gun nut" I submit-

    Why Carrying a Gun is a Civilized Act

    Why The Gun Is Civilization

    By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force.

    If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that’s it.

    In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

    When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

    The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

    There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we’d be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger’s potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat–it has no validity when most of a mugger’s potential marks are armed.

    People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that’s the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

    Then there’s the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don’t constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

    The gun is the only weapon that’s as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn’t work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn’t both lethal and easily employable.

    When I carry a gun, I don’t do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I’m looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don’t carry it because I’m afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn’t limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    It removes force from the equation…and that’s why carrying a gun is a civilized act.
    How can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temple of his gods.

    What you put into your mind- you put into your life.


    www.zombietoxin.com

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    • #17
      There is no reason anyone needs assault weapons. My thinking is he killed the mother's class out of jealously for her affection and they were all 5 YEARS OLD !!!! My wife is 1st grade teacher in CT and I was scared shitless until I read Newtown.
      Last edited by HauntedPaws; 12-14-2012, 04:44 PM.

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      • #18
        Zombie Toxin is a fantastic example of a law abiding gun owner. Society is safer, more civilized, and possibly more polite when he is out in public. In my experience CCW holders are the best, brightest, and most responsible that our society has to offer. CCW holders are typically masters at diffusing situations through the use of verbal judo, and when necessary are usually more proficient with their weapon than most police officers. Everyone should fullfill their civic duty of being a responsible gun owner who excercises his right to bear arms. We would all be safer, more civilized and certainly more polite.
        www.haroldshaunt.com

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        • #19
          Originally posted by HauntedPaws View Post
          There is no reason anyone needs assault weapons. My thinking is he killed the mother's class out of jealously for her affection and they were all 5 YEARS OLD !!!! My wife is 1st grade teacher in CT and I was scared shitless until I read Newtown.
          Assault weapon is a political buzz word that the “firearms experts” in Congress have repeatedly failed to define. The technical definition of assault weapon is a select fire, semi-auto, that accepts a detachable magazine. These types of weapons are titled as Class 3 weapons that only the very wealthy can afford, and even then in only a select few states, and then only after they have passed an extensive back ground check and have registered the weapon with the BATF and have paid a $200 tax. No one within the firearms community uses the word assault weapon, unless they are talking about a Sturmgwehr, but that is another topic for another time.
          When the first gun control act was being argued in the Supreme Court, even they recognized that the 2nd amendment was written as a final check and balance on government and the last resort to resist tyranny. For this reason, they would not allow any weapons that were readily used by a regular infantry man within the US armed forces to be banned from private ownership. On a side note, the list of guns that were titled as class 2 firearms was incorrect due to the blunderbuss which was a short barreled shotgun, but let’s keep this simple.
          Magazine fed, semi-auto rifles or assault weapons as you like to call them are needed to keep tyrants from taking our other 9 amendments that are in the bill of rights. In my humble opinion, any able bodied man who does not own an appropriate firearm to defend his family, and his country, and does not have the wherewithal to stand up when the time comes, does not deserve the freedom that our forefathers have entrusted us with.
          www.haroldshaunt.com

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          • #20
            Seeing as corporate tyranny already controls the nation I think you've missed that bus awhile ago.

            If you need a magazine fed weapon to defend yourself perhaps you need better aim or logic would say you probably should've left the situation.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by HauntedPaws View Post
              Seeing as corporate tyranny already controls the nation I think you've missed that bus awhile ago.

              If you need a magazine fed weapon to defend yourself perhaps you need better aim or logic would say you probably should've left the situation.
              you don't know me well enough to critique my aim or my logic. The point of the second ammendmet was to ensure that The People and those who might oppress them would be on equal footing. This means military grade hardware. Right now we are not on equal footing, and I don't want to see it get worse. I swore an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. The least I can do is defend the Constitution on this forum. If the US ever does find itself in total tyrranny your "huntin gun" will not suffice against multiple, well armed, well trained intruders, I doubt that your skills will either, considering your attitude.
              www.haroldshaunt.com

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              • #22
                Lets not forget that the constitution and the right to bear arms was written at a time when Americans were worried about the Red Coats breaking down their door, it was war with the British and a gun was necessary. Also back them people still shot their own food for survival. Nowadays we have a place to get food, it's called a grocery store. This idiot had mental problems but he still managed to get guns, we need tighter laws for sure to endure this doesn't happen again.


                DA
                Last edited by Darkangel; 12-14-2012, 07:01 PM.

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                • #23
                  There we go again...."We need LAWS" does no one get the fact that criminals do not follow the laws????? You can say you want tougher gun laws, tougher punishments, etc. Do you really think some deranged lunatic that plans on shooting a bunch of people cares about your laws??? Do you think he cares about the punishment when his plan is to kill himself afterwards????

                  How are MORE laws going to fix that?????? Explain to me how your going to get a criminal to agree to these new laws you want.

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                  • #24
                    you go evernight...

                    stew

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                    • #25
                      The level of technology that was present when the Constitution was written is completely irrelevant. The Constitution was written to acknowledge our God given rights in order to safeguard us against an oppressive government. The Constitution does not grant us our rights, it limits what the government can do to infringe upon them. This was a result of their experience with the inherent nature of government to seek more power. The Constitution is immuned from the effects of technology, because it was written to address human nature. Human nature is constant. Thousands of years from now those in power will seek more power. Here is the million dollar question. Is there really anyone here that trusts the government enough to give them absolute power? Keep in mind your favorite political party might lose the next election. Speak up, who here trusts them that much?
                      www.haroldshaunt.com

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Evernight View Post
                        There we go again...."We need LAWS" does no one get the fact that criminals do not follow the laws????? You can say you want tougher gun laws, tougher punishments, etc. Do you really think some deranged lunatic that plans on shooting a bunch of people cares about your laws??? Do you think he cares about the punishment when his plan is to kill himself afterwards????

                        How are MORE laws going to fix that?????? Explain to me how your going to get a criminal to agree to these new laws you want.
                        Are you really that unaware that the vast majority of these homicidal episodes are done by people who got their guns legally, no one has said any of them were criminals and got guns illegally. Guns are too easy to get and the gun toting rednecks who still go out shooting helpless animals in the woods for "sport" even though its not close to being a sport, are the only ones complaining.

                        DA

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Darkangel View Post
                          Are you really that unaware that the vast majority of these homicidal episodes are done by people who got their guns legally, no one has said any of them were criminals and got guns illegally. Guns are too easy to get and the gun toting rednecks who still go out shooting helpless animals in the woods for "sport" even though its not close to being a sport, are the only ones complaining.

                          DA
                          Evidently they are not easy enough to get, because the only person in the school that had a gun was the bad guy. One competant person with a firearm could have saved a lot of lives today. So simple yet even the most obvious things can evade some people.
                          www.haroldshaunt.com

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                          • #28
                            My heart goes out to those effected by this event, it's sickening to see the lake of respect for your fellow man. Death was a too easy out for this guy. We have been killing each other long before guns even were invented. The problem with these guys is that all the games, tv, and music have desensitized people to the value of human life. Out lawing guns only takes the gun from good people who respect thier weapon and leaving them in the bad people's hands. If there were no guns we would use other things like a pipe bomb, poison or even a car as a group of kids are going home. If you want to cause harm to someone you will find a way. New gun laws will not fix this, when we don't enforce the ones we have. How come 25% of Detroiters own unlicensed guns and when they get caught the get a fine and 6 months of probation and that is it. Get the guns out of the people who don't know how to use them or respect them. I know the knee jerk reaction is to get rid of guns but we all know that is not going to happen, we need to push for harsher punishment for those who don't keep there weapons secure and safe. I just looked up a startling fact that it is estimated that 35% of fellows convicted of violent crimes have guns after release from prison.


                            Phatman
                            Phatman

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by RobbeOne View Post
                              For the record...

                              A man in China went into a school and was shanking the children. This happened today with a knife. Crazed lunatics will do what they want even if they don't have a gun... it's the deranged people that do these acts, not the weapon.

                              http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1..._hp_ref=canada
                              This bears repeating. If this had happened in the US would there be an outcry to ban cutlery? I'm sure most steakhouses would oppose that.

                              More info http://www.latimes.com/news/world/wo...,6383015.story and an interesting quote: "In 2010, nearly 20 children were killed and 50 wounded in a string of copycat incidents around central China. China has strict gun control laws, so knives are the weapon of choice in violent crimes."

                              Remember, the 9/11 terrorists used boxcutters...
                              http://www.bigscaryshow.com
                              http://www.rabidbadger.org

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                              • #30
                                Well someone here is going around with bug sprayers full of flammable liquid spraying people and lighting them on fire.
                                But real numbers
                                Florida allows guns to be carried (Stand your ground law) .. violent crime down approximate 37%
                                Switzerland close to US in guns in ownership and that all males after mandatory service must carry a gun until 30 or 34 yrs old depending on what their rank was when they were in... have almost zero violent crime from guns. So low they don't keep stats.

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