Vegas a bust?

[Matt Marich]

I just came back this afternoon, and I will say it was pretty slow yesterday, ( Friday.) There were alot of one booth vendors at the show, and instead of, for example, seeing 6 feather booths, there was only one. Strange to see big vendors bow out due to Rubie's Pide Piper effect. With the economy the way it is, the real factor will be next year to see who will survive. The shows, including the Haunt Show, may have to unite for the sake of cost, if not business. Rubie's doesn't even need any of the two shows, they are assasinating the industry and brigging down the competition, they are a spitefull and disgusting corperate bully. They make their money with private showings, and it was them that dictated to TW to remove the Haunter's. They didn't like the attention being stolen from them. And like a spoiled little kid, they took their ball, some of the best players, and ran away.

Matt Marich
Edge Designs

[graystone]

Here is a stupid thought.

Hey TransWorld what about this.

1- Move them back together 1 show 1 headache!
2- Keep the price as usual for retail and charge the haunt section a better rate? Maybe even increase the booth price on the retail side and let the extra go towards the Haunt Vendors.
3- Supply coats for those who don't own one and think Chicago is to cold.
4- Have a web feed from the show floor for those who will not attend whether it be as a vendor or a buyer.
5-Offer buses that will go from Chicago to St. Louis so the Darkness tour can be an annual event.
6-Offer TransWorld food stamps for those who think it cost to much to eat in Chicago. Because no one knows how to shop around for a good meal at a cheap price.
7. Have a booth reserved for vendors that want attend so we can go to their websites and order online. I mean its apparent most don't own computers or would just do that from home anyway.
8- Just keep the retail vendors that don't want haunters vendors there out of the show.
9- Just keep the haunt vendors that don't want the retail vendors out of the show.
10- Offer an awards dinner and offer awards to the vendors/buyers who cry the most, know the most, does the most, things like that!!!

These are just my ( Shane's) opinions but I think its the best thing and seems to have covered all of the concerns brought fourth. Shane and its Another great post by me. Shane this time!!

[MDKing]

I wish it were as simple as just buying a coat. Coats I have many of. You Chicago guys figure out how to get a coat on the planes and stop the bad weather so flights don't get delayed or cancelled alltogether and Chicago is fine. We've been there and done that I thought....

Allan

[drfrightner]

Couple of issues to consider...

Retail shows cost more. Rosemont cost more. Our vendors for years paid retail price on tradeshows... Transworld retail party show cost more per booth than IAAPA and IAAPA had 4 times the buyers. Retail shows in general are more expensive.

We are not a retail industry we are an attraction industry. We have nothing in common other than the fact we like looking at the cool Halloween junk. But for the most part we don't buy anything.

Exactly the reason they didn't want you there, a reason I can actually understand and agree with... this is why you have your own show now.

One of these two shows Houston/Transworld is going under for sure... after this mess with both shows having little to no attendance one is going down. If Transworld show survives great, if not doesn't matter.

We have our own show one where the vendors can save money on booth costs, hotels, food and travel. Haunted house owners also want better deals, more products developed, then you need your vendors to realize some saving as well.

Lets not be selfish because we want to look at some Halloween stuff.

Do we really want to be in the middle of this turmoil or just wrap your fingers around your own show? Think about it!

Larry

[The Parker House]

I would just like to say, as much as I liked seeing the new retail items and rubies great costumes. I think the two shows can get along separate but could also work together to make for a much better show. If the booth cost stay affordable for the smaller haunt vendors why wouldn’t they want to be at a show with both? That would more then triple the opportunities to sale there product. I also agree there should only be one show. ONE BIG SHOW affordable to all vendors. That’s the win win.
Also I need to say, don’t be fooled. We need the Halloween retail much much more then they need us. I don’t know about your town but in the Dallas area I am able to set up ad campaigns in more then 65 store front locations strategically placed around our city. ABSOLUTLY FREE!!! This is called Party City, Cow Halloween, Spirits, etc. etc.
My point is. If it wasn’t for all these stores opening up and reminding everyone in Sep. that its Halloween again. Then our haunts would do considerably less people.
Sure, we would still get that 10% that look forward to Halloween all year and hit 4 or 5 haunts around there city no mater what. I don’t know about anyone ells but I can’t open my doors for only 10%.
So we need to be just as concerned for the retail part doing well as we are with the Haunt part.
Face it, we need them to do well, much much more then they need us to open our doors.

[spookhaven]

Well guys, I opened our haunt in 2007 and took the leap into the fire and opened a Halloween store separate from the haunt in 2008. It was a CRAZY leap/idea to say the least. But the store helped the haunt by increasing traffic, got us some great help, and people haven't stopped talking about both sides of it (thank goodness). So, I have to support that they go hand in hand.

I am at home and did not attend Vegas (or Houston). What's funny is atleast 3 times a week I was getting calls from Transworld telling me not to forget to register which tells me they were promoting heavily for one reason or another. Vendors from Houston are giving different reviews. AND THE FUNNY ONE is that my Rubies rep. called me yesterday to say they will have their show room open in New York this weekend to come up and visit. Which typically means the rest of them up there are open also. They have been open no less than 4 times now since December. They even opened for the Toy Show 2 weeks ago. What is this telling us? Retail is in some trouble.

It was my first year in 2008 attending the Haunt/Retail show in Vegas. Some vendors ignored us when they saw our tags said haunted house, but when I told them we were opening a store, they turned around and listened.

I decided that my haunt was more important with the economy the way it is and my group is attending St Louis. I can pick up the phone and reach all the vendors to get new catalogs. But we all must admit that seeing merchandise in person is the best way to make the decision and the haunt vendors definately bring the WOW to the shows.

I think we all need to realize that our industries go together to some degree. Haunters are just much more passionate about Halloween and put our blood, sweat, heart and souls into it. MOST retailers are just spending money in the hopes to make more money.

So I being on both sides, support a rejoining of the shows no matter where it's held. But will always follow the Haunt Show First! I think us standing strong will show them how powerful of a group we are and make a big part of the retail business. Because without us having our haunts/corn mazes, etc, people wouldn't be getting into the Spirit of Halloween until days before Halloween.

[swampboy]

Vegas

For what it is worth, I am here at the show right now in Vegas. If you want an opinion then find me at TW and I'll tell you about it.

Here are a couple points of info:

1) The 2010 HCP Show is at the Rosemont in Chicago - its publicized and you can reserve your booth today Feb 26 to Mar 1. There is no info about it being anything other than HCP again - so none of the info suggest haunts will be with it next year. (Just reporting the fact and not suggesting it couldn't change or that this is the best way to do it.)

2) Noah is correct, the "Haunt Pavillion" at HCP 2009 is just tables with business cards/brochures on them. No one I spoke to at the show suggested anything negative about the Haunt business but rather focused on TW for splitting the shows.

I've talked to over half the vendors about the show and their thoughts but don't really want to re-hash on a forum since it is just people's opinions but many are very concerned about the economy and that seemed to be more on their mind than this show or that show.

[mindtumor]

What insults Tyler? I pointed out exactly what you said about what you are going to do if you don't get your way and then gave my opinion on what that sounds like. I told you right in the post I wasn't trying to insult or attack you. I had two points in that post one was people talking out of both sides of their mouth, which has happened on this subject for the last TWO years, and the other point was how much you learn and how your opinions start to change after owning your haunt no matter what the size of it is. Obviously, you feel much different about what you read then what the intent was. What I was doing is called debating YOUR arguments. You gave your opinions on the show based on what? Whether you think it is an insult or not your opinions on this industry and what you believe you need to grow your show are going to be a constantly changing and growing thing as operate your show, not someone elses. If you can't handle having your comments being debated and discussed then don't post them. Surly, you don't think you can say whatever and it won't be questioned. Do you not question what other people say sometimes? Do you just take for granted that whatever someone on here says is good sound advice coming from a person that has experienced exactly what they are trying to tell you what to do? Or do you just expect me to say "Whatever person xyz says must be what you are suppose to do".

As far as you saying me insulting you shows what type of person I am, keep this in mind I didn't insult you and I didn't call you names and I certainly didn't throw some profanity your way like you did me. What I did do was question the statements you made about you seeming to know what is best for everyone and what you were going to do if things didn't go the way you think they should go. I even went as far as to say I didn't have enough experience and knowledge to say what is the best for the industry. And I certainly won't be insulted when someone says I haven't be around long enough to be telling people constantly what they should and shouldn't do and what is best for them and the industry. I will say "Yeah your right, I don't".

And if you feel insulted by this rebuttal I am MORE THAN WILLING to clarify my statements to you or anyone else.

[The Doctor]

All this retai...haunt stuff is fairly comical...since I would say almost every professional haunt has a gift shop in it. I mean last time I checked no one was selling animatronics in their haunts they were selling retail merchandise. Two three four shows all doing the same thing is bad. A few shows with different feels and purposes is good. I have not been going to many Transworlds, but loved Chicago not because it was Chicago but because I could walk and see so much stuff centered around Halloween. I mean when my wife gets me out to the Mall I don't just go to the Game store, I visit a few stores with no intention of purchasing but then again sometimes I see that "item" I just have to have.

A big all encompassing show that treats both Haunts and Retail with Equal respect is a good thing for both. It gives the haunter a chance to find a good price on some retail merchandise that fits their gift shop, or maybe make a contact that can make those T-shirts you been wanting to sell for a price you can afford. The actor finds just the costume they were looking for, or the retail store finds a simple prosthetic that they can sell in their shop. Why does it have to be us against them? I think a bigger show that offers more is never a bad thing as long as everyone's needs are met. Exclusion rarely produces the best outcome...

[spookologist]

First of all, after reading the posts on this topic it seems like a very healthy debate, not a name calling one....congrats.

With that said. here is my opinion for what its worth.

If the retail, Halloween, party and the haunt industries could all work together, I think that would be great. I really don't think that will happen again.

I totally believe the haunt industry could take over and stand on its own, big-time. As I said before, I would love to see The Haunt Show, MHC, HauntCon and some of the others join together as one big Haunt Show in March. I think the guys from all the haunt shows and a 3rd party, Transworld (or whoever) should get together and work things out, but this show needs to be early. I suggested awhile ago that if one of these shows were to step up they would have become the Haunt show. They all do such a great job on their own, imagine if they were all together. The haunt vendors would spend money improving their product lines rather than traveling to all these different shows. Its a win-win for everybody involved. If this were to happen I don't care where it is located, Chicago in March wouldn't be as bad as January but it wouldn't be my top choice.

Who knows, since the retailers are having such a hard time maybe they'll want to work with us haunters for a change. Besides, unless you have a retail store, most of the stuff at the retail show is Walmart, Spener Gifts crap and why would you have that in your shows anyway.

The Haunt Industry- we're saving Halloween. It has a nice ring to it.

Wayne
www.trailofterror.com
http://gallery.trailofterror.com

[Nightgore]

Jared...

I'm not saying my company won't go... I just won't go as a buyer! Also, treating and talking to someone like a child and throwing out the insults only makes yourself look pathetic. I can hold my own and I've been WORKING in this industry for close to 5 years now, 3 years on a DECISION making level. I know what I'm doing and I take it very seriously...

As for my business... you don't know anything about it. 50% of the company is mine... I've put a few hundred thousand into, and yes, I worked for it. I don't have to explain myself to you or this industry... nor do I expect anyone to just "take my word for it". Yes, I'm a young guy... but trust me, I know ALOT more than you think and will be doing a much
better show that what's expected. (yes, in my first year of ownership)...

I don't have to "pay my dues"... I've been busting my ass in this industry for a long time... and yes, I know what it's like to run a haunt... a nightmare! But I love it; that's why we all still do it.

I'm not crying, whining and throwing a fit about a hauntshow move to Chicago... I just really don't think it's the best move for the industry. It's my own opinion... so f*ck off if you don't agree! Me, I'd LOVE to see it in Orlando, Atlanta, Nashville, Birmingham, etc. etc...

NO, I don't know everything about this industry... no one does. Not Ben... not Shane... not Larry... and no, not you. This industry is too vast that no one will EVER know everything... still though, if you only know 10% after years of owning a haunt, then I don't know what to say. I'd say that about 27% of this board know at least 60% of what they need for this industry.

So, I'm leaving this thread... it's not worth my time nor the arguement; and I'll say it again... if the HAUNTSHOW moves back to CHICAGO (and it's still winter) I will NOT attend the show as a BUYER! Period. You want to talk more about.. call me or send me an email or pm. -Tyler

[mindtumor]

So basically Tyler you are saying if you don't get your way and the hauntshow doesn't go to a Tyler approved city then you are going to throw a temper tantrum and stay home? Who cares? I didn't like it when they moved the show to Vegas but I went. If it moves to Orlando, which I don't want, I will still go. Do you want to know why? Because I don't cry like a baby when I don't get my way. I don't talk out of both sides of my mouth and scream "We need to support our vendors, we need to do what is best for them!!" like some people around here and then threaten to not attned any show if I don't get my way.

Also Tyler do you realize you are on here telling lots of people that have actually owned and operated haunts for years what is best for them and the industry? You haven't ever ran your own haunt and only this year do you claim to own one and it doesn't even sound like it is your haunt, it sounds like some older guy plopped down a million dollars and bought one.

When Larry or Ben or Shane or anyone else that has owned and operated for years speaks up about issues like the show it is different then when you rehash what they have already said.

Also think about this if say someone like Larry, Ben, Shane(for example not specifically) says "We need OUR OWN SHOW! Lets make it happen and get our vendors cheap pricing on booths because that is what we need, LET'S DO IT PEOPLE!!!" and then he/she finds out it is going to be in Pittsburg or something and then he/she says "Well I am not going because it is in Pittsburg and it is cold and there is nothing to do" would you think he actually has the industries best interests at heart or would you think he/she is pouding because it is somewhere he/she doesn't want to go? (None of them said this it is just an example) To me that person would lose all credibility.

This isn't an attack on you or an insult to you. I realize you think you know everything about this industry but you don't. Getting ready to run an attraction and then actually doing it are real eye openers. I thought I had it all figured out before I opened the first time, I had taken business classes, I had run a hayride for 3 years, I had been on this board, I had read books, I had talked to other owners, and I had a passion for it. I worked really HARD. Then I opened and have ran for a couple of years and today typing this I realize I only know about 10% of what I need to know. I view things differently from only after 2 years as well, I can't imagine what my thoughts are going to be like after 5, 10, or 15 years. Most of our problems are capital problems, so if you actually have a million dollar backing you might have a leg up there.

I say we all see how this St. Louis show is going to go, I think it will do well, and then learn from it. Use the experience to continue to grow this show and have it be the best for the industry no matter where it is.

As far as Vegas and Houston in my opinion(which doesn' t mean much) those shows probably suffered simply because it is two different shows on the heels of one another. I highly doubt those shows are suffering because a bunch of haunted houses aren't there. But who knows.

[Jolly Pumpkin]

The last time I checked Halloween was about costumes and candy. It's not just about being scared and having fun. That's part of it. It's about tradition, becoming someone else for one night and enjoying candy that brings back memories of when the world was safer and it was fun being a kid. Halloween is about the seasons changing.

Halloween would do just fine without haunted houses. Yes, it wouldn't be as enjoyable and profitable, but it would survive. But the haunt industry wouldn't be in as good of shape without Halloween. You can have two separate shows for retail and the haunt industry, but when they aren't together they aren't as successful. There are haunts out there that buy stuff from the retail side and haunt side.

[graystone]

Amen Ron

Hopefully we will see the return of Halloween and Haunt! I am 1000000% for it. Tyler my friend if you dont go just because its in Chicago then all I can say is. You will be the only one that want go. Well maybe along with Larry I seem to remember him saying he want go either. I did not want St. Louis but after thinking about it I am going and am being supportive although I have my opinions I mean Drama about it. Shane and its yes Tyler just like me you will go! Shane this time.

[Nightgore]

I don't think you understood me...

WE ARE HALLOWEEN!!! What I'm saying is that there needs to be a seperation of RETAIL and HAUNTS... Knott's Berry Farm, they don't attend retail shows... they attend HAUNTSHOWS! Well, they attend IAAPA for that matter, but who's getting technical!

Leave the retail show to retailers... Wal-mart, Halloween Express, FindCostumes.com, etc. etc. etc... we don't need that shit and let it rot! We have our own, full blown AWESOME show that's going to be cool as hell!

We are Halloween! Halloween is about getting scared and having fun... not buying candy and blues clues costumes!

And don't even bring up how they're the bigger side of the industry and make more money. Again, think about this... who is the demographic of the retail side? Haunt side?

It's like comparing Cedar Point to Disneyworld... two different industries, two different goals... different audiences! We can examine this for days but it all comes down to us... THE HAUNTS!!! -Tyler