Young Posters

[RJ Productions]

Allan H posted on another thread and had some very valid points that I feel need to be addressed in their own thread. The subject is “young posters”. Not to be rude or belittling but we have had a “rash” of young posters recently. While I applaud their enthusiasm, I agree with Allan. Do we need to have all these posts on what is supposed to be a professional haunter’s message board?

While there may be some interesting questions, I find trouble in addressing these questions to individuals who right now do not even have the means to afford the ENTRY into a haunted attraction much less OWN a haunt! Again I am not trying to be a “joykill” or “hardass” but a realist. I was interested in haunting at their age. I had no one I could turn to. But if there was a pro haunter near me then, I would have NEVER have wasted his time asking questions about opening my own haunt, especially one that wouldn’t be realized until 20-30 years later. I also gave up on haunting as a kid only to return to in my adult years. How long until some of our young poster grow weary and move on to a new “passion”?

So unless you actually have worked in a haunt as Allan has suggested, it’s tough even calling yourself a “haunter” you are more of a “haunt enthusiast”, which isn’t a bad thing! But before asking all these questions and claiming you will be opening your own “haunted house”, get to a point where you can afford to move out of your “parent’s house”! Go start a home haunt. Most of us started there. Visit home haunt sites and message boards and ask questions there, as you actually BUILD your home haunt.

The Home Haunt scene is like the “farm system”. It’s a perfect proving ground. Go excel on the “AA” level, move up to the “AAA”, and then eventually you turn pro!! I did it that way, many others have as well. While you may think you are a talented teenager who really wants to open a haunt in 2 or 3 years you actually have no clue to the reality of the situation. It takes A LOT of money to open an attraction. It takes a lot of time, talent, business skills, contacts, and knowledge. Do you know electrical codes and how to correctly wire your attraction? Most fires are electrical! Do you know building codes? Can you build structural walls, floors, sets etc that won’t injure an actor or patron? Do you know how to form a corporation or at least a sole proprietorship and what it takes to obtain all the necessary permits and licenses? Do you know how to run a business, what is necessary to file your tax returns for a business? Many of the posters asking questions haven’t even WORKED for a business, much less know how to RUN a business. These are just a few of the questions you need to know before you even THINK of what it takes to scare people. Scaring is the EASY part, but without the other information and skills asking what final scare we suggest is totally pointless.

Again my point here is not to condemn anyone asking questions, just qualifying them. As Allan stated it’s great to ask questions, but it’s one thing to be building something and need an answer another thing to be asking questions just to ask questions. This IS supposed to be a Pro Haunter’s Forum. We had a similar thread years ago. If you have an interest in dentistry can you join the American Dentistry Association or go to their web site and ask questions? Absolutely not! You must be a certified dentist to even have access much less ask questions. What do other actual “Pro Haunter’s” think?

[terrormasue]

I a I agree!

I am in the process of opening a haunt here on my 17 acres. I have had home haunts for many years and finally decided this year I would go pro. I am well into my "adult years" where I can now afford it. Yes, it takes a great deal of money, thousands of dollars. I agree with you 100%. My advice would be to stay in school go out and get a great job that pays very well and then do all the research you can about the ins and outs of the haunt industry. Go to college and major in business with a minor in art and set design. If the passion remains into your adult years then GREAT! Open the best haunt ever. But until then study, watch, read and listen quietly.

[tchaunt]

Well, as I can tell I'm one of the people this thread is talking about, here's what I've got to say:
-I realize that this forum is filled with the best in the industry, and that they are busy a lot. But I hardly see how you can compare this to a real life haunt. If you walk up to a pro haunter and start asking questions, then you may be interrupting their work. If your on here, you post a message, and anyone who's not busy that can get online can post a reply if they feel like it. I real life, a haunt owner couldn't just not talk, but people can do that on these boards. So, I don't really think it is reasonable to compare this forum to real life.

-I am asking all the questions that I will almost never have answered without this forum. Just two months ago, I was trying to find everything I could about haunted houses. I would dive into Google as deep as page 50 on a lot of searches. I finally found Haunt World, and I discovered its amazing community. I stood in the sidelines as a regular guest for a week or two, then I decided to join. Though I don't have a haunt, I have the drive to open a haunt.
--Consider this: I have held first chair (top rank) Saxophone from the first chair test we had in my band class. I am very serious about band. I would go out on the field to march last year when my knee cap was out of place just so I wouldn't have to miss practice. When I get dedicated to something, I get dedicated. It takes a lot of bad things to happen to make me not like something. Also, there are band trips I'm not going on just to start start saving money for starting a haunt.
-With me, I love haunts. I was pretty much just rolling through life with out much of anything. When I discovered my love of haunts, I couldn't keep myself away. I sit in my room working on ideas for my future haunt until 4 o' clock in the morning sometimes. I appreciate that you accept the fact that I am truly a 13 year old, but what you're not seeing is how I live my life: always carrying around a folder with notes jotted down here and there, with sketches for prop ideas I've had, with all of the pages of descriptions I've wrote out just to make sure I don't forget a thing bout my room idea, with all the blue prints for props and wall panels, and with all of my plans. I honestly do not leave that precious orange folder anywhere. I bought it for $.05 and it's priceless to me. I couldn't give it up.

I realize that with me being a 13 year old (nearly 14), getting money for starting a haunt will be a pain in the butt. But I'll work until I can't work any more just to get started. I guarantee you that I will at least start a yard haunt by '10, if not a basic haunted house. I know this is hard to believe that a kid who is barely a teenager thinks he has found what he wants to do for the rest of his life, but I have.

I understand to an extent why you think I shouldn't be asking these questions, but, quite frankly, I feel as though I have the rights to. I'm not forcing people to answer, nor am I charging them money to answer questions. People on these forums can be more than polite and answer most of my questions (Dr. Giggles and Jim Warfield are two I can think of right off the top of my head), or they can really dislike me and not want me on here.

Believe me when I say, I am only a haunt enthusiast. I'm pretty sure I've never claimed to be a haunter (if I have, then I didn't mean to). I've said I want to be a haunter, but that's it. I'm not going to call myself God when I'm only a God enthusiast.

[Floor8Horror]

ok

While Im young Ive been doing a haunt for 6 years. It isnt a professional haunted house it is charity. This is a great place for me to find out things to enhance my haunt.

[Floor8Horror]

oops

i didnt mean to post that so soon, I wasn't done:

And for about the last month the only people that have been posting things on this website are Jim, Dr. Giggles, and the young people, so I wouldn't call this a bad thing. These young people are going to be the professional haunters some day and they need to learn from some one.

[Spookyfinder]

I'm going to have to agree! So, I am 21... still considered "young" for this industry! BUT! I've been involved in some type of PRO haunt for 10 years now; and it's just until now, after 10 years I'm able to start my own PRO haunt. It does take alot of money, I mean ALOT of money, you also have to go about it the right way:

-Have a good business plan with good business practices
-Have the money to be the best
-Have the TALENT to be the best!!!!!
-Have the MINDSET that your going to be the best!

Also, it's not always about "haunting"... you have to look at:

Marketing, workmans comp., business licenses, accounting, builing/lease, insurance.... it goes on and on!

I think one would have to work the ropes, learn, and work in PRO haunts to be called a haunter! But in a way, there is NOT ONE PROFESSIONAL in this industry because we have no type of certification. Look at plumbers, mechanics, chefs, doctors, etc. etc... I guess we're not that big of an industry yet.

But none-the-less... I am excited to see a young crowd posting on HW.com. I mean, every haunter started like this! Jon-Kyle does make a point though, if your posting on HW.com then your obviously not busy with your haunt... and if you take the time out to respond to a "young persons" thread, answer questions, etc.etc. ... AWESOME!!! Your really doing nothing but making our great industry better!

It's two-fold... youngsters that have to learn the ropes and old dogs that need to teach! -Tyler

[Floor8Horror]

good point

that is a very good point nightgore. Lets just continue to make this industry better. this is a great great website and I really enjoy it. Also you cant be a pro until you learn things so if we want this site to be ONLY pros the young people wont learn anything and this industry will decline.

[mindtumor]

I believe the reason some people are taking exception to this is because of WHERE you are posting your threads and asking your questions. This forum is called PROFESSIONAL HAUNTED HOUSE CHAT ONLY. There are other forums on this site more suitable for your questions so post there. I know when I have a question about my haunt I don't want to have to sift through answers and threads that have nothing to do with being a pro haunt. Rich's point is very valid and no one should be insulted by it. Think of it this way if you paid for a seminar or class would you want quality information from a qualified person or would you want to sit there and hear information from people who don't know what they are talking about or worse information that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. My understanding about THIS particular forum is that it was for pro haunters that have questions for other pro haunters about operations and such. If you don't fall under this description then your posts probably belong in the Fright Forum. No insults were meant it is just the truth.

[Jim Warfield]

Things Come Full-Circle (then "circle" again)

When my Dad was a kid in the 1930's a teenager was not allowed to walk into a new car showroom because they knew no kid would have the 1/3 down, cash-money to ever buy a car.
By the time I was a teenager we were the driving influence for Detroit, making cars we wanted the 66 Mustangs, GTO's, Firebirds....now with the economy it will probably come full-circle with desolete showrooms looking ascance at any young person not showing up in a limo.
The problem with thinking knowledge is exclusive and the sole property of the old or experienced is that "youth" (full of enthusiasm) doesnot all go away or become severely distracted from their dream, we can warn them about the pitfalls and work involved, but then not everybody has the same talents or lack of understanding or lack of support that many of us had to face and overcome. Some do have many more advantages , some of them might be 40 years younger than some of us......I don't count anybody out who has a passion and a brain.
Some of these youngsters don't sound like they are interested in all of this just for a quick-buck .

[RJ Productions]

Good points all. I hope your realize than I am not condemning any young posters just as it was said, this forum is for Professional Haunters. IF you are not, you can still log in and read answers, check threads and LEARN from the "old timers".

The major problem here is the internet. IF a 13 year old walks up to me and asks a question I can judge for myself how involved, talented, enthusiastic, etc and answer the question accordingly. On the internet most of us never even knew we were corresponding with teenagers. Most, like me assumed we were helping a fellow professional haunter in the process of opening an attraction. Again, because this is the Professional Haunters Forum.

I am sure I speak for others; we are not condemning their enthusiasm, just the means. Haunters stopped and took time to respond. You feel you wasted time when you find out you are talking to a 13 year old who may never open a haunt. Yes I know even "older" posters may never open a haunt, but the people who actually are in the position to open ask different questions.

Do we need criteria to post here, rules, regulations? Let's hope not. It should be very simple. If you are an enthusiast you post on the Fright Forum or better yet work on a yard haunt and visit the several home haunt sites, that are very good at what they do and have some great info. IF you are a Pro Haunter then you post on THIS forum.

Remember, almost everyone scans both Forums. If you have a question on the FF and someone wants to answer, so be it. But again on the Pro Forum we assume you are actually in the process of building and answer accordingly.

Many times on the past I attached myself to "master craftsman" apprenticing as you will. I watched, listened and learned. Slowly I asked questions, always pertinent to what was being worked on. I gained a lot of knowledge that I use to this day. Our young posters asking about room scares, haunt designs and the like will have NO relevance if or when they actually open an attraction. Things change! Haunts of 10 years ago are vastly different that haunts of today. Times change, rules change, audiences change. Sure there are some standard things, but many of these questions they ask will be pointless in ten years.

It's not that I might sharing info. I was taken under a wing when I was younger, so I in turn apprentice others. Several teenagers have worked on my haunts. Two are now carpenters, two are electricians, one in electronics, one in the movie industry. All started by working at the haunt as my "personal apprentices" . So we do share our knowledge, I just feel it is important and should just be tossed about carelesssly.

Look, LEARN, LISTEN, that's all we ask.

[Allen H]

Clarification on my post

I did not mean to bash the young posters, I respect that they need to learn tips and tricks somewhere. It is my belief that experience is the best teacher, and as yet some of you have not done anything. Thinking about haunts is not the same as building haunts. I tend to ramble a bit I know so lm going to respond to TC's post directly so I can be as clear as possible.





- But I hardly see how you can compare this to a real life haunt. If you walk up to a pro haunter and start asking questions, then you may be interrupting their work.
I consider this board part of my work, I use it to both give advice and get advice for my business. So If there are 20 new threads in a day and 15 of them are useless or garbage, then I consider my work interrupted. True I do not have to look at all of the threads (and believe me I do not) but they still need to be filtered through. TC you are not as guilty as some, but the posts that bug me the most are when I see a teenager asking about haunt supplies that are for sale and asking about prices on things that we know they cant afford. Or trying to get info for "when they get their haunt" when its more than 5 years off. If you do not own a haunted house then you should work for one, then I do not mind if you post asking questions to improve your room or character. Dr. giggles is great about that, and I can see him being an asset to the haunt he works for because he works on his character so much. But even he is guilty of typing in stead of doing in some cases. If you are dead set on your own haunt one day thats great. I highly urge you to table that dream and work for someone else's place first. Make mistakes on their dime not yours.


-"I am asking all the questions that I will almost never have answered without this forum. "
I highly disagree, the people who are answering your questions here did not learn the answers here, we learned by doing. If you start doing then you may find a new or better way to do something and then you can share with us.


" I finally found Haunt World, and I discovered its amazing community."
Hauntworld is one of the biggest advances in haunted houses in the past 20 years easy. A network of your peers to tap into is an awesome thing to have. The key to that is peers. Some people have little to add and so they only take from the boards. Until they start doing and start making things (not designing) it will be hard for them to contribute.


"Though I don't have a haunt, I have the drive to open a haunt."
thats great drive is important now start putting in effort so that when you get your haunt it is successful.


-"With me, I love haunts. I was pretty much just rolling through life with out much of anything. When I discovered my love of haunts, I couldn't keep myself away."

I understand this, but your vision is to far ahead, you will stumble trying to reach your goal if you dont look at your feet. At ten I knew what I wanted to do for the rest of my life, I wanted to be a full time haunted house actor, at 18 I had accomplished that and had to expand my goals. No one is questioning your dedication, just the mothods you are using to get to where you want to be.


"I sit in my room working on ideas for my future haunt until 4 o' clock in the morning sometimes. I appreciate that you accept the fact that I am truly a 13 year old, but what you're not seeing is how I live my life: always carrying around a folder with notes jotted down here and there, with sketches for prop ideas I've had, with all of the pages of descriptions I've wrote out just to make sure I don't forget a thing bout my room idea, with all the blue prints for props and wall panels, and with all of my plans. I honestly do not leave that precious orange folder anywhere. I bought it for $.05 and it's priceless to me. I couldn't give it up."
I think that this is my exact point, have you built anything out of that big folder of plans? if not, then how do you know it will work? each time you make something you get an idea of what it will take to make something similar next time. It kills me to see a haunt budget that does not have screws or hinges listed, many planners forget to add those things the first few times and it kills them. Details that need to be included in plans and designs ingrain themselves into you as you build things, its only by trying to build something that you realize what needs to be included next time.


"I realize that with me being a 13 year old (nearly 14), getting money for starting a haunt will be a pain in the butt. But I'll work until I can't work any more just to get started. I guarantee you that I will at least start a yard haunt by '10, if not a basic haunted house".
If you want this to be your living, then I would skip the yard haunt, you need to start making money doing this and get the thought process of good show+ good weather= money. Skip the yard haunt stage and work for someone else for a few seasons, learn on their dime and be an asset to them at the same time. You will NEVER make what you deserve in this field no one does, If I or any pro for that matter totaled up their hours we would make about $2/hour for the season maybe less. Work to gather experience as well as money.

"I know this is hard to believe that a kid who is barely a teenager thinks he has found what he wants to do for the rest of his life, but I have."
This is the easiest part for me to understand I do not doubt the destination, just the path.

"I understand to an extent why you think I shouldn't be asking these questions, but, quite frankly, I feel as though I have the rights to. I'm not forcing people to answer, nor am I charging them money to answer questions."
You do have the right to ask anything you want, I just ask young posters to think first and try to look for an answer before asking. Or try to do what you want and then ask how to do it better, or ask about a specific problem you are having.


"People on these forums can be more than polite and answer most of my questions (Dr. Giggles and Jim Warfield are two I can think of right off the top of my head), or they can really dislike me and not want me on here."

For all young people out here, the more useless posts there are, the less we like you. I have personally given up on Oak hills as he blatantly lies and already believes he is an expert. He is as much a haunter as he is an architect. Most of my posts are trying to help someone, check and see all my posts and you will see that is true. This post is me trying to help to.
Please take what Im saying in the spirit its given, and not as an insult.
Allen Hopps

[Floor8Horror]

oh man

"I know this is hard to believe that a kid who is barely a teenager thinks he has found what he wants to do for the rest of his life, but I have."
This is the easiest part for me to understand I do not doubt the destination, just the path.

I can tell that you don't like a lot of what the young people do but I am going to focus here. While I am still a young person I have been haunting for 6 years with my OWN haunt, please remember that. I think that is hard to believe that someone knows what the want to do and the path do being a pro haunted is vague but some encouragement from the pros would be helpful.

If a 10 year old golfer went up to Tiger Woods and said "Im going to be a pro golfer" I don't think Tiger would say "HAHA, DOUBT IT!".

And you say that we wont learn things here we will learn it on our own. So you are saying that you never learned anything from an experienced person or from here? Then what is the point of this site.

And Im going to shove your words right back in your face. "I believe that this thread has nothing to do with building or maintaining a pro haunt. Take it some where else on this site please!!"

[rwrussom]

Mr H, you missed the point. Tiger Woods would not say ask a lot of questions and read some books about golf and watch it on TV. My guess is he would suggest figure out a way to get ahold of some clubs and spend time actually hitting golf balls.

There are some solid points here. I spent a very long time searching and learning from old threads before I posted questions that I felt were not answered and had relevance. There is a long history of a posters with a flurry of activity that leads no where. Most of these threads cover the same questions over and over. Remember Mr Haunt or Dr. Haunt?

[Floor8Horror]

ha

You are right he wouldn't but I was basing that Tiger story on what Allen H said. I am with you on the Tiger thing but I was responding to the previous post.

I really think that this thread is going to get way off topic and out of hand and Larry is going to have to warn us again about what this forum is for. Because this thread is seriously off topic.

[Allen H]

Floor, you are missing the whole point as someone has kindly tried to point out to you. Tiger woods would be nice to the kid you mentioned, and he would say go practice, and when the kid was out of earshot he would say HA Ha DOUBT IT! because he knows what it takes to get there.

"And you say that we wont learn things here we will learn it on our own. So you are saying that you never learned anything from an experienced person or from here? Then what is the point of this site."
Floor on your original post on the other thread (in which I answered all of your questions in detail) I said where I learned what I know, and once again I will say as clearly as possible. I learned by doing, not really from the internet. When I see a thread or new advice online I can easily understand the improvement or modification because I have done something similar before. Even reading what we write you do not grasp it all because you have no experience. This is not a slap, its just an observation.
"And Im going to shove your words right back in your face."
I have been nothing but polite on each of these threads, there is no need for tantrums. careful or you will show your age.

"I believe that this thread has nothing to do with building or maintaining a pro haunt. Take it some where else on this site please!!"
This thread has to do with maintaining a haunt list it is dead on topic. This is not my list to maintain but it is my main communication with the haunt community, if the information is hard to filter through then I will go elsewhere as will others. I never bashed you or anyone else in any of my posts (oops aside from Oak Hills) scrap the attitude and change mine by changing the nature and relevancy of your posts. This is just advice, feel free to ignore me ,many do.
I think our reasoning is just to grease the tracks and keep the list flowing and a sharing of ideas.
Allen H