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  • #16
    Join for the right reasons

    I have always believed that any association is good for the people involved whether it is haunters, skiers, or what ever.

    Having a voice for the industry with the media is the most important thing in my opinion. It needs to be one that can answer questions form the variety of media that calls for information and one that is experienced.

    The problem with the splintered group is all the bickering between a whole bunch of tempermental, successful, headstrong, and dedicated group that are involved in the Halloween themed industry called haunted houses.

    The other problem is the low number of owners that join yet should simply because it is the industry association. I do think that nearly all the top 30 haunts in the U.S. have belonged to one of the two preceding groups. Many of the rest in the country do not consider themselves officially in the industry, just scratching it out, so they do not even attend shows either. I know of several in my area right now. The industry has evolved and is still pretty new as far as that is concerned.

    The magazines that have been in the membership benefits have ALL had flaky publishing dates and promises. The embroidered bags and other stuff I don't care about except the association sticker. That is like the NFIB or Chamber stickers on other businesses and also is good for the website.

    Larry, you have moved up and down and in and out of all the associations depending on whatever. You have worked hard and lobbied hard for some changes which were made. Just pay your dues and stay in the background if only because it is the thing to do.
    Brett Molitor (aka ~ JamBam) Member of HAA

    Haunted Hotel-13th Floor (est by Huntington Jaycees in 1968 8) )
    Longest running Haunted House in the WORLD!!

    Hysterium Haunted Asylum (old Haunted Cave), Fort Wayne Indiana

    Hysterium Escapes - 4 rooms with 3 themes



    • #17

      As usual you make an intelligent and reasonable post. It's not about choosing sides like it was it's now about having one voice that represents the whole industry. We're not big and active enough for two groups. With accidents that happened and in the news involving well known haunts we need some kind of professional voice. Give a chance guys!



      • #18
        " Doesn't it really matter though if you need an association to buy your magazine subscriptions then you are helpless"

        I am going to forgive Larry for the above post because I think ye may have been working at the Darkness all night and was not in his right mind. I don't need an association to buy me anything. I was told to get the membership rather than signing up with all of the different mag which makes a lot of sense. Help the haunt industry and get the mags. That was the idea.

        So according to Larrys quote I should have purchased all of the mags subscriptions in addition to the membership I already had.

        "As for vendor discounts I really don't know why that drum is beat on so much because you can get CHEAPER discounts YOURSELF you just have to ask"

        I could be wrong but when it came to HHA and people beating drums Larry you were there beating them the loudest when it was started.

        I think the reason you are in this thread is it makes you look bad that Hauntworld was promised by you and the HHA for one year to new members. And now the deal has gone bad. for the very best items on the net.


        • #19
          Couple of things...

          Brett... No I wont' be paying or joining. Why? Because I worked my ASS off trying to make this a better industry for ALL and then a couple numb nuts try to ruin it for everyone. I'm TIRED of trying to work on that issue for it to only backfire in your face. I'm not the ONLY ONE who has moved on from it or feels it will once again throw some new shadow over us all, create or be the center of some new drama. For 15 years or whatever its always been DRAMA...and if you deny that you are a flat out idiot or your are in complete denial. One or the other... I know you are not an idiot so not calling you one because I know you know it has been drama filled ... 'As the Haunt Turns'.

          With that being said... we have to look at this industry and its habits. Will the industry pay for a bumper sticker, and this and that will they cough up $250 for that NO THEY WILL NOT!

          Is an association worth $250 to support your industry YES IT IS I pay more than that for IAAPA, the difference is our or this association does nothing we all depend on to keep our industry from being ruined or helps this industry to move foward in the essential ways we require. So joining just to join and show support I have done that like many others for years and it hasn't worked out.

          I'm NOT slamming those who want to try AGAIN... however I'm just pointing out that history has shown it will be more of the same and whether you join or don't join your business will not be helped or hurt.

          So I do wish them luck truely, however I wish to stay clear of the drama it brings and rather focus on something like my own business, which I suggest you do the same!

          The people who really CHANGED IAHA and got this whole merger thing going was the LIGHT that HHA brought to the table... HHA forced all this because those guys on the other side of the fence realized their number was UP if they didn't... that I find sad. You couldn't see through a glass window and see everything you do was wrong, and change on your own, rather wait until HHA becomes a HIT by our industry association standards and then change. And now this new HAA board really looks like the same OLD IAHA people who did nothign with IAHA in the first place.

          So again I'll pass.


          No I meant every word I said... yes you are helpless if you can't buy your own book bags, videos, seminars, get your own discounts, and a magazine... TOTALLY HELPLESS! I don't operate that way and never have I trust myself and rely on myself, I read everything that is said here, I listen to everyone who has something to say, I change my mind often, based on what I LEARN!

          I don't need some association buying me a magazine... if a haunt needs to pay an association $250.00 so you can get a $10 magazine that is ... LOL

          Now let me be clear here... is it a NICE benefit to joining? YES IT IS!

          Should the association do this? Probably! As I've pointed out 100 times OUR INDUSTRY can NOT or should say IS NOT producing any of the tradeshows, main seminars, main education, nor does it have one of the big websites that promote the industry... and the list goes on.

          This knock is against ANY of the assocaitions that have come before or after... the association would have to spill a lot of milk and upset a lot of people to do so... so it has never done so!

          It could and a tradeshow would make the association by my figures about $400,000 annually... but we have a tradeshow company we are all happy with right now so the water is not splashing all over your hard wood floor!

          Everyone is happy with status que for NOW...

          I think I'm pretty clear in what I'm saying... an ASSOCIATION SHOULD do for you or your business or your industry WHAT YOU CAN NOT DO FOR YOURSELF OR BY YOURSELF. Buying a magaizine for you just isn't one of them... so I'm not upset they are no longer buying it.

          But I do want you to know you are dead wrong... I did promise a magazine for a membership and I shipped EVERY SINGLE MEMBER A MAGAZINE EVERY SINGLE TIME one was released.

          Issue 26 is being released in Jan 2011... HHA and IAHA for that matter has disbanded. Their board choose NOT to purchase magazines for members... and I don't disagree with that direction because like I said if you want one of these magazines no matter which one you can buy it.

          On the other hand if HAA is going to charge you $250 for a membership it better be worth $250.00 ... see what I'm saying.

          Not saying its not worth 250.00 I'm saying for you make sure it is and if getting all the magazines made it worth it then I guess its no longer worth it to you.

          Larry Kirchner


          • #20
            Larry I think you have so much bitterness towards the HHA that you lost site of what the original post was about.


            This is the problem I have with many of the vendors as a whole.
   for the very best items on the net.


            • #21
              Let me be clear to EVERYONE... so there are NO misunderstandings.

              The new HAA board voted to STOP buying magazines all magazines for you as a membership benefit. I was merely informed as were all the other magazines not to ship out any more magazines.

              IAHA and HHA disbanded the new HAA has NO deals in place with anyone to ship magazines to members as a benefit. There is NO deal gone sour just simply the new board decided buying you magazines was not a benfit they wanted to offer.

              I don't disagree with them. They must figure out how to get your $250 or whatever the costs are to join and what benefits make it worth the price.

              Every single member of HHA was shipped a magazine every single time one was released for about two years... we fullfilled every single promise we made in terms of the magazine.

              This is January 2011 a new year and your membership with HHA and or IAHA is over and now if you choose to join another assocaition its with HAA and they have a new list of what they feel is worth the cost to join.

              That is for you to decide its your money!

              But understand we offered to ship magazines to the old IAHA membership just the same as HHA and was told no thanks. We did however have a deal in place as Ben described... it was my idea for HHA to ONLY purchase magazines on an issue by issue basis because some of the magazines don't print often or not at all ... so if a magazine printed it would be purchased and mailed.

              We promised three magazines in 2010 and we shipped three magazines in 2010 to HHA members!

              Additionally I informed the HAA board that several people complained about not getting this issue 26 coming soon... I was informed that HHA is no longer and its a new board and a new assocaition. I agree with that 110%.

              If you feel the association should buy your magazines tell them... if you join that is, as a member use your voice! If you don't join then simply buy the magazines you want.

              For $250.00 you could subscribe to a lot of magaiznes, buy a lot of dvd's and or buy a lot of seminars. So again its up to you to decide.

              UPDATE: I did get a call from an HAA rep the other day saying the new board might change their mind and buy magazines and wanted to know pricing for them. I offered the magazine to them at COST as a show of support. If they decide to go foward buying our magazine or any other I'm sure you'll hear about it. Me personally I do not think you should or shouldn't join based on if you do or don't get a magazine. You should join based on the merits of what the association offers, promises to offer, or if you think they will help you grow your buiness.


              PS: Grim I think YOU LOST sight of what I said. We promised every magazine to every member of HHA and we delivered a magazine to each member, each and every single time a magazine was published. I was informed by HAA NOT to ship any more magazines... if you have a gripe take it up with them!!! NOT ME... and FYI. I informed those guys... HHA had money in their accounts when they MERGED WITH IAHA and you shouldn't skip out on something promised. I see a membership as OVER the day the TW show starts... this is what I told them, I said I think we should SHIP this one last magazine because its shipping BEFORE TW... they said they would let me know and the answer is NO!

              Not my fault buddy! Sorry.
              Larry Kirchner


              • #22
                Originally posted by spookhaven View Post
                I was involved in 1 meeting on the marketing committee prior to the season start. Other than that, I never got emailed or called except to say, "I would be contacted when meeting started". Didn't happen.

                Are you talking about the conference call meeting of the Marketing Committee with the marketing company? I was in that meeting too (I think there were only 5 of us including the reps from the PR/Marketing firm), and also was the last of anything I heard about the marketing committee that I joined. Just wanted to be involved and help. I know I made some great suggestions in the meeting, but never seen or heard about any of the stuff they said they were doing...other than in the newsletter.

                Im up in the air whether to join the new one...I also still have been having the hardest time getting the prize I won at the IAHA banquet last year honored....but thats a whole other issue. Maybe they can put it towards a membership for me? lol.

                I agree with Larry that for the organization to be effective they need to make a real difference and do something that helps everyone that they cannot do individually on their own. Magazines and discounts you can get on your own for the most part, parties and social events can be planned by anyone (especially when you still have to pay admission to get into them), and you dont need the association to create content for seminars or other educational resources...unless they are the driving force behind it all...

                Again like Larry said it really needs to be something much bigger to be effective and to actually be a help to such a large industry. They have to be willing and find ways that will help not only the owners, but the vendors, the actors, and the fans (at least helping find ways to bring them) that come through the attractions and keep the blood flowing so to if the fans/customers arent coming through, they arent buying tickets or merchandise, the owners arent buying new props, merch, or services, and the industry fails. It all works hand in hand, and if an industry association is going to be in place to needs to help it all...needs to be more in ways like a union....keeping everything in check and creating new opportunities. The industry runs ok without it, but might run better with it if done right..who knows unless it happens.

                But it obviously has to start somewhere unless someone is willing to fork out the startup for something that big it needs to grow from something small. Lets hope this one can learn from the mistakes and problems of the past and mature into something great.

                those are my thoughts on this one.

                Mike "Pogo" Hach
                -Mike "Pogo" Hach


                • #23

                  Grimley is right you were beating the drum pretty hard when the HHA first started. It seems like when reading your posts you make it sound like if you support it and you are involved, then it's a good thing and therefore worth it. But on the flip side, if you are out and not involved it's a bad thing and not worth the money. It's onvious you don't support it why not do as you said you would and let it go and focus on your haunts and business and let the HAA do it's thing? Larry you were in IAHA years ago and more recently the HHA and it seemed to end badly for you as you left , why is that???



                  • #24

                    Unlike yourself the drama king of this board, I don't want or need to be involved in things that are nothing more than drama 24/7 I have better things to do!

                    I can't operate inside a circle where everyone has different agendas and mostly for themselves I'm lets do whats best for everyone. People want to run on these boards for a reason and most of the time its selfish.

                    I can't operate in that environment.

                    Lastly, let me say this I realized if you read anything I write, that only after trying to do somethign RIGHT did I realize just how much this industry doesn't care about an association. Its not about is it worth the money or not worth the money, its about spend the time on this which doesn't basically nothing and feed into it, or turn your attention directly on what helps you directly.

                    My point is to anyone JOIN if you think its WORTH IT TO YOU, if NOT don't... it won't hurt you or help you either way. If you want to give your money to them great but in my opinion it won't help your business and it kind of sucks you into a drama pit, which actually might be great for you!

                    Larry Kirchner


                    • #25
                      Come on DA are you Sam Horner? Are you hauntedhousenut or just a fan of the original troll? Whats the scoop? Its cool man if you are, some of your stuff is pretty good, needs some polish but I think you'll get there.
                      Jared Layman


                      • #26

                        Hauntedhousenut? Where's he been???

                        I'm not him, but I also have taken notice and have been impressed with some of your work here on the forum too. If it's polishing I need, perhaps you can take me under your wing and get me to par???